Spay and Neuter Controversy

[Minkness]

I know it's not reptile related, but I found this ro be very enlightening. I have always been a spay/neuter advocate, but now I am thinking differently on the matter after lots of research due to gwtting a new puppy.

Here's a very informative video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPCZA1WFKY

What are your thouggts on this?

[eminart]

I think the average dimwit probably should spay or neuter their cats/dogs. But, I don't think it should be done until after the animal reaches maturity. I also think there are people out there who are responsible enough that they don't need a bunch of crazy cat ladies telling them that they HAVE to spay or neuter their pets. I think it's better for the long-term health of your animal not to do so. Imagine spaying or neutering your kids as a birth control method. Not exactly sound reasoning. They'd be on hormone pills their entire lives.

That has been my unpopular stance forever, but it's starting to gain traction now.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

[Minkness]

I agree. I feel a bit ashamed because for YEARS I was that person who felt that spay/neuter was the only 'right' way. What strikes me as odd about this, is that I NEVER felt that way about horses! Mares stay intact their whole lives and stallions are usually allowed to mature to 2-4 years old before gelding. Why this was left out for dogs I don't know! But I do know that I will be leaving my new pup intact as long as I can, if not forever. I may even print out small cards with all the health benefits, fact and fiction to pass to strangers who try to harass me or ask me questions about why he still has his gnads....lol

[RAD House]

Unfortunately the average dimwit makes up a large portion of this planet. I think until a better method has been proven to reduce the number of strays this is the only dog we have in this fight. Pun intended. I do tend to agree with you that a private owner should wait at least a year and even two years with larger dogs, but I do not see this as an option for adoption agencies unfortunately. I one hundred percent agree that any animal they adopt out should be spayed/neutered and it is not feasible to ask these organizations to sit on dogs for numerous reasons. I may be wrong but I thought it had been shown many times over that a neutered animal will outlive an intact animal. Also to be entirely honest I was not able to watch this entire video as I am short on time. As I skip through she does seem to mention another method of sterilization with out removing organs but can not find where she elaborates on this. If she does not offer other viable options than this video is incredibly irresponsible in my opinion given the current impact strays have on the environment.

[eminart]

I agree. I feel a bit ashamed because for YEARS I was that person who felt that spay/neuter was the only 'right' way. What strikes me as odd about this, is that I NEVER felt that way about horses! Mares stay intact their whole lives and stallions are usually allowed to mature to 2-4 years old before gelding. Why this was left out for dogs I don't know! But I do know that I will be leaving my new pup intact as long as I can, if not forever. I may even print out small cards with all the health benefits, fact and fiction to pass to strangers who try to harass me or ask me questions about why he still has his gnads....lol


Good for you for changing your opinion when presented with conflicting information. You don't know how rare that is.

And, to be clear, I'm not saying that there aren't good reasons to spay and neuter. I think probably a large portion of people are NOT responsible enough to not have their pets fixed (we could argue that this means they shouldn't have pets at all, but that's another discussion). BUT, there are good reasons not to spay or neuter, if you're a responsible owner.

I've done it both ways.

[Minkness]

Meso, please take the time to watch the WHOLE video. I know it's a tad lengthy, but she absolutely touches all things you mentioned.

Also, she shares the same views as you about rescues and adoption agencies fixing animals before adoption. This is NOT a video telling people not to fix their animals. It is merely informative of the pros of both sides of the fence with added leverage to the 'staying intact' side since for sooooo many years people have been fed incorrect, speculative, theoretical reasons for fixing animals.

I read somewhere else as well that while places like Great Britain and Germany have looser spay/neuter laws and offer several different alternatives for 'sterilization', have fewer numbers of unwanted animals because the owners are responsible by keeping dogs on leashes or kept up and away from other dogs if in heat, and have a stricter watch on their animals as well as properly train them to be smarter than their hormones, but places like Scotland who have strict, mandatory spay/neuter laws are over run with strays and unwanted litters because for the most part, they just let their animals roam and don't keep an eye on them and such.

Again, this video is promoting knowledge, not an anti-spay/neuter message.

[Charis]

I found this really helpful in determining if and when to spay my newest dog.
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

[Pogie]

I have always been for "fixing" a pet. Mainly because of the health reasons.

I have had both spayed/neutered dogs in my life time. The few that were not fixed did get cancer and die.

On the other hand I have had 2 dogs that were spayed/neutered that also died from cancer. Bone cancer. Yes, both were large black dogs which I have learned since then is common in the larger dark color dogs.

Seems a lot depends on the breed, or that's what I'm getting out of the video and the posted information, and other information I have read up on in the past.

Right now I have a Jack Russel x chi that I have to take to the vet, I think she may have the same bone cancer my two large dogs had. I am hoping not!
She can not do surgery as she is alergic to the stuff they knock them out with. She is spayed but I don't think they did it right because she almost died so they had to hurry and get her closed to wake her up.

I'm on the fence about the whole thing...I do see the pros and cons of it. I will continue to spay/neuter my pets. I'm old so i've seen lots of pets come into my life and either die from some illness or just plain old age.
I have had more luck with spay/neutered animals health rather than the non fixed ones.

This is just my opinion and what I have seen through my lifetime of having pets versus spay/neuter and non spay/neutered ones.

[Minkness]

Of all the animals I've had all but 1 were spay/neutered after mature. They all lived good long lives and died of unfortunate accedents or simply old age. The one who was neutered at 7 weeks had temperment issues, joint issues, and died of cancer.

It'snot about 'not' doingit, it's about doing it responsibly.

[Pogie]

Of all the animals I've had all but 1 were spay/neutered after mature. They all lived good long lives and died of unfortunate accedents or simply old age. The one who was neutered at 7 weeks had temperment issues, joint issues, and died of cancer.

It'snot about 'not' doingit, it's about doing it responsibly.

Oh don't get me wrong :) I agree it's all about responsibility to our pets. With this I couldn't agree more.

This is just what I think is responsible from my perspective :) I don't hate or disagree with what others think at all.
We all will have different opinions due to what we read, know and are taught :)

[Minkness]

Absolutely =)

I was just sharing my experience like you shared yours. We had oppiset experiences so I kind of wonder if fixing or not fixing has anything to do with it or if cancer is just a prevalent genetic anomaly that has little 'cause' and too much effect.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'm on the fence about spaying/neutering. It seems to be healthier leaving them intact, although some sort of cancer is more likely when left intact (I think it was testicular cancer but idr).

I say, as long as the animals are allowed to fully mature before becoming fixed (1-5 years old or something like that), it's up to the owners. It's when I see 3-4 week old kittens spayed/neutered at a shelter that it's rather vexing. I know most shelters require the animals to be fixed before adoption...but kittens? Seriously? I really hope they were lying about that because I'm surprised such young kittens even survived the operation.

[macandchz]

i guess i'm the average dimwit that didn't have her dog neutered. he is mainly a house dog who is now 10+ years old. i had 4 male dogs and 1 female dog in the past. the1 un-neutered male lived to be 18 years old and had few health problems. the neutered dogs all had weight and health issues. my dogs never ran the streets making un-wanted pets. vets are not pushing neutering as much as they used to. the shelters force it on you when you get a pet from them. i wish some md's would push it on some of the people out there!

[eminart]

i guess i'm the average dimwit that didn't have her dog neutered. he is mainly a house dog who is now 10+ years old. i had 4 male dogs and 1 female dog in the past. the1 un-neutered male lived to be 18 years old and had few health problems. the neutered dogs all had weight and health issues. my dogs never ran the streets making un-wanted pets. vets are not pushing neutering as much as they used to. the shelters force it on you when you get a pet from them. i wish some md's would push it on some of the people out there!


This would make you NOT the average dimwit. You didn't neuter your dog, and handled it fine.

[chairman]

Given the apparent health benefits of leaving animals intact AND the need to control pet populations, I find it odd that vasectomy/tubal ligation is not the new mainstay of pet "fixing." Unless there are a host of issues that I'm unaware of related to those forms of sterilization.

[Minkness]

They just aren't taught in vet schools and many vets aren't comfortable trying 'new' things of their own volition (probably nore for legal reasons) . However, there are alternative sterilization methods that are slowly coming around. I may look at this myself if my local vets can do it. If not...well, then he may never be fixed.

[macandchz]

dear chairman, i think the fact that the animal would have to under-go a longer and more complicated procedure is why those methods aren't used. plus it would be a lot more costly.

[Minkness]

Actually, most sterilization procedures are less invasive and thus, kess costly and quicker. Think of the difference between a full hysterectomy vs just getting tubes tied. Same thing but loads different.