Ugh Mites... Help please?

[AwesomeGuy376]

So today i found out my boa has mites... wonderful. Luckly, the store thinks he had them while he was in their possession, so i got free reptile spray and prevent-a-mite. As a relatively new owner, i do have some questions. but first, this is what ive done so far-
-Taken everything out of his enclosure
-Sprayed prevent-a-mite and 5%Bleach 95%water (Let it sit for 45 mins)
-Changed substrate to paper towels
-Sprayed his body with reptile spray and massaged it in 3 times
-Tried to pick mites out from under his chin (Only got one.. He wasn't liking it)
- Sprayed my hognose and changed his substrate, also sprayed cage with prevent-a-mite
-Sprayed the boas things with prevent-a-mite and soaked them in hot water
- Sprayed my desk with the bleach and water, and cleaned the entire room. Sanitizing everything around the enclosure.

The only thing i didnt use chemicals on was his water dish. Right now hes in his cage with one climbing log (The only one that didnt smell like prevent-a-mite) and his water dish.. His hide still smells strong of prevent-a-mite, so i cant put it in.. I made a tent out of paper towels for him though. Anyways, on to the questions-

1. What are the chances of my Hoggie having mites if her cage is right next to the boas. Ive only had her since tuesday.
2.When i put the boa in the cage, he went right for the soaking, is this normal even after the treatment?
3. Do i have to find every single mite on this snake and pick it out, or will they die on their own through this treatment, because he will not let me get under his chin for very long...
4.chances of death?
5.How long does my poor snake have to suffer?
6. How long till i should switch back to normal substrate?
7. Will spraying his decorations be enough to kill the mites? I cant get all the dirt off the logs cause.. well, dirt gets stuck easily as you know
8.The bleach smell was somewhat strong in the room, the herps were on the bed in cases while i was doing this, did i harm them with the fumes?
9.Chances of them coming back? and where do they come from?
10. Do you have faith in me to do this :P

[Nightflight99]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there are many reports of hognose snakes reacting adversely to Provent-A-Mite. You can run a quick Google search to confirm, but I strongly recommend immediately removing your hognose snake from the treated enclosure, and rinsing it in luke warm water, followed by a throrough soaking!

1. What are the chances of my Hoggie having mites if her cage is right next to the boas. Ive only had her since tuesday.
Its a 50-50 chance that depends on how far apart the enclosures were, how bad the infestation was, etc.

2.When i put the boa in the cage, he went right for the soaking, is this normal even after the treatment?
Yes, snakes that have mites have a strong tendency to seek out the water container, in order to drown the mites. Excessive soaking is often an important clue that a snake may suffer from mites. It should be noted that you do not want the snake to soak immediately after returning it into a treated enclosure, because the permethrin solution in the Provent-A-Mite needs to be in contact with the snake in order to kill the mites. In order to achieve this, I always wait an 24-hours or so before replacing the water container.

3. Do i have to find every single mite on this snake and pick it out, or will they die on their own through this treatment, because he will not let me get under his chin for very long...
No, the permethrin will take care of that if treated correctly.

4.chances of death?
From the mites? Low, unless the infestation is extremely bad. Most outbreaks can be contained and eliminated with an aggressive treatment approach.

5.How long does my poor snake have to suffer?
That all depends. If the outbreak was minor, then a single treatment may be all it takes to remedy the problem, in which case the mites should be eliminated in a matter of days. If the outbreak was severe, then it may take several treatments, which can last for several weeks.

6. How long till i should switch back to normal substrate?
You should wait until you are 110% certain that all mites have been eliminated. I've found that a waiting period of six weeks is adequate, but your mileage may vary.

7. Will spraying his decorations be enough to kill the mites? I cant get all the dirt off the logs cause.. well, dirt gets stuck easily as you know
Yes, spraying them properly should be sufficient. If you're in doubt, remove the cage furniture and soak it in a 5-10% bleach solution, then treat it with Provent-A-Mite.

8.The bleach smell was somewhat strong in the room, the herps were on the bed in cases while i was doing this, did i harm them with the fumes?
Not unless they are contained in a small space and forced to breathe in a significant amount of bleach fumes. They're most likely fine, but I would remove them from the room for future treatments.

9.Chances of them coming back? and where do they come from?
Snake mites come from other snakes, usually new arrivals that have recently entered your collection. However, sometimes mites can also use feeder rodents or maintenance objects to briefly hitch a ride on. The only way to protect your collection is to always quarantine any new arrivals and to use frozen rodents only.

10. Do you have faith in me to do this :P
Yes! Its a massive pain in the butt, but if you're diligent and consistent with the treatment, then you should be able to eliminate the mites.

Hope this helps!

[Jim Smith]

Nightflight99 gave you excellent information. As he stated, mites can be extremely persistent which makes them a royal pain in the butt to get rid of. I strongly recommend that you follow Nightflight99's advice and be prepared to go through the process a number of times if necessary. I advise that you only use paper towels or newspaper for bedding until you get the issue solved. It will save you a lot of time than if you think they're all gone and set up with new bedding etc. only to find them returned and you start the whole process over again, and again, and again. I've only had one infestation of mites, but it took me several months to get rid of them. As a last resort, I ended up using the biological treatment of predatory mites. I added them to the bedding, pulled my snakes out of their enclosures and let the predatory mites hunt down and eat all of the snake mites and their offspring. I left my snakes in their "temporary" tubs for four weeks to ensure that the snake mites were actually all gone. The biological method works, but it is expensive ($50) for enough predatory mites to treat about six 4 foot long cages, and it takes a number of weeks to get the job done. I still washed out all of the cages with bleach/water solution and let it set for a couple of days before rinsing them with clean water and replacing my snakes. I used newspaper for bedding for about three more weeks to make sure all the snake mites were gone before replacing the bedding with SaniChips and all the hides and decorations. Good luck and please keep us posted.

[AwesomeGuy376]

Thanks guys! I soaked the Hoggie and she seems to be doing fine. The Boa actually wasnt soaking when i woke up this morning, but started soaking half way through the day. Ill be removing his water overnight after the reptile spray treatment. Ive also wiped down his cage and changed the paper towels, which ill be doing daily for a week. He seems to be doing better though, and less mites i keep finding in his dish! The Hoggie has shown no signs of mites, and i checked her and couldn't find any either. Thanks so much nightflight, its really awesome of you to answer all the questions :) This is just my luck, ive only owned snakes for a month and of course the one snake i just had to have has mites... Oh well, hes so sweet it makes it worth it!

[AwesomeGuy376]

Also im curious, do you think he was sold with mites? Or that i brought them in

Reasons i think he was sold with them-
-The guy at the store was selling his whole collection cause of (College problems)
-He was very eager to sell the snake
-He pointed me to this snake in specific
-The snake has a scar on his head which may have been caused by bad ownership?

Reasons i may have brought it in-
-I go herping at least twice a month
-Only been once since i got him, we found a skink, turtle, and frog
-Got very dirty
-Didnt handle the snake until showered, but was in the same room

[Tsubaki]

Probably already had it, but i would take more precautions if you go looking for wild reptiles. When i've been to an expo, any new animal stays downstairs, and my clothes get taken off downstairs and go straight into the machine while i take a good shower... I have not had a mite outbreak in years even though i did buy an animal who turned out to have mites in quarantine, if i can not know the animal is clean of mites, i will behave as if i know they have mites.

On multiple occasions i have worked with animals who had mites at the local zoo (Rescues).. Yet my house stays clear. I'm a bit anal about it according to my friends who also volunteer at the zoo, but i say: Prevention is key.:)

[Nightflight99]

Ill be removing his water overnight after the reptile spray treatment. Ive also wiped down his cage and changed the paper towels, which ill be doing daily for a week.
Sounds like you're on the right path. Just to reiterate--always remove the water before a treatment or else the permethrin will render the water toxic, which could be fatal mistake. Also, do NOT change the substrate daily or you will be significantly decreasing the effectiveness of the treatment! Instead, replace the newspaper/paper towels every 7-10 days with pre-treated substrate (i.e. take some fresh newspaper, spray it, let it dry, then use it to replace the old one in the cage).

[AwesomeGuy376]

Ok I think I messed up badly.. The water wasn't removed after treatment and he did soak in it.. Will he die? How long till I know if it had adverse affects? The water was changed the second day, and when I woke up and read this it was removed completely.. I'm worried it's too late cause he was in the water a lot.. Ugh now I'm really stressed

[AwesomeGuy376]

Wait I double read what you said, you said the permethrin was in the prevent-a-mite. But I never sprayed the water dish with it cause I didn't want it to be toxic. And the paper towels he's on we're never in contact with PAM. The only thing on him was the reptile spray that the store gave me and said it was safe for snakes.. Guess I should've double read everything again.. But still, is he in danger?

[AwesomeGuy376]

Ok I think I completely misinterpreted what you said. Did you think I sprayed the water with PAM? Cause when you say "treatment" I assumed you meant on the snake. Cause if you mean the PAM on the cage, everything was removed and it was an empty cage. Now there was water added AFTER I sprayed about 2 hours later, that's what I'm concerned about. Cause he was soaking after I put the Reptile Spray on him, not PAM.

[Tsubaki]

Any mite treatment on the animal or cage, water needs to be removed for at least 48h.. It is very unhealthy your snake soaked in water contaminated by reptile spray, it is not meant to be ingested and only waiting 2h after the PAM is too short (Not sure what PAM is but it probably contains permethrin or another insecticide).. When treating an animal for mites with anything other than predatory mites, you should remove all water-containers.. And after about 48h only give them a container big enough to drink, not to soak.. To prevent them ingesting anything toxic. When you are actively treating them for mites, they shouldn't have to soak.. More risk of ingestion and less effectiveness of the spray.

[AwesomeGuy376]

God this is stressful.. How long till I know if he has adverse affects of the spray? Do you think he'll be okay? Ugh I'm starting to regret buying him tbh. Not one month without something going wrong

[Tsubaki]

He might not get sick at all, he might not even have ingested it.. Just treat the mite problem and stay calm.

[Nightflight99]

How long till I know if he has adverse affects of the spray? Do you think he'll be okay? Ugh I'm starting to regret buying him tbh. Not one month without something going wrong
Tsubaki is right--you do not want a water container to present in the enclosure while applying any pesticides. PAM uses permethrin, which is a neurotoxin that most reptiles can tolerate once it has dried, but it will produce neurological symptoms nearly immediately when snakes are sensitive to it. In other words, if the hognose snake is doing well after the exposure, then it will most likely be fine.

Just to clarify--if you treated the empty cage with PAM, then it is going to be a lot less effective than treating a fully-furnished enclosure with subtrate (but without snake and water bowl). The best way to use PAM is to remove the snake and waterbowl, spray the entire enclosure (with contents) and let it dry. Then replace the snake and later, the waterbowl.

[AwesomeGuy376]

Ok to clarify, this is exactly in detail what I did-
-I emptied both cages completely, no substrate, no water, no snake, nothing.
-I then sprayed both empty cages with PAM
-while they were drying, I applied Reptile Spray to both snakes. Rex more so than Vista
-I then took Rexs' decorations and soaked them for 48 hours underwater and will treat them individually with PAM. I will put these back during the next treatment
- I put Sani chips in the Hognose cage along with her decorations
- I sprayed his hide, and climbing log with PAM. I cleaned his water dish with water and no PAM.
- I put paper towels in the boas cage with only a water dish, hide, and climbing log so he can reach his hot spot 2 hours after the PAM application
- I took the water out this morning upon reading your post this morning

So yeah hope this clears up any misunderstandings :P just really stressed right now, I've only had snakes for a month and this happens..

[Nightflight99]

I think you'll be fine, just stop replacing the substrate unless the new substrate has been treated with PAM.

For future reference, here is an easy breakdown of the procedure using PAM:

1. Remove the snake and water container.

2. Spray the entire enclosure (including substrate and cage furniture) with PAM.

3. Let the enclosure air dry until it is completely dry.

4. Replace the snake.

5. After 24-48 hrs, replace the water container.

6. Retreat in 14-21 days, if necessary.

[Albert Clark]

It's always better to put the reptile/s in a separate enclosure overnight while the proventamite dries. Just safer and ensures that all the surfaces are dry and at the therapeutic level as opposed to the potentially dangerous level. All water should also be removed for at least 24 hrs. Even though you don't see the mites you have to presume that either they are there or mite eggs have been laid there. I think you are okay and the animals will be fine. Try and relax. You did the best you could and that's all we can do right now.

[murrindindi]

Hi, an excellent method of thoroughly cleaning the enclosure and "furniture" is with a hand-held steam cleaner (or obviously a larger size). The diluted bleach solution will NOT kill reptile mite eggs, the steam cleaner should (the temp needs to be at least 123f), just a couple of eggs left intact and the infestation is likely to start again.
Naturally the animal/s must be removed prior to using the steam cleaner...

[AwesomeGuy376]

Quick update-
Rex seems to be mite free, he hasn't soaked at all and i haven't found any mites on him yet.
Vista is unfortunately suffering from the prevent-a-mite and its unknown if shell survive at this point in time.

[Tsubaki]

What symptoms is Vista showing?

[AwesomeGuy376]

Major convulsions.. Started sometime yesterday.. She's still alive this morning though