106 Burmese pythons captured in Florida...

[Humble308]

Just wondered what yalls opinions on this kinda stuff.

As a person who values conservation of our natural species I think these snakes have become a bit of of a problem in Florida, and who can blame a snake thriving in prime habitat.

When I see retics and burmese as babies at the show for $100-200 I can't help but wonder if this adds to the problem a bit by triggering many more impulse buys. But I don't own a giant snake, nor do I think I ever will so I'm curious to what some of yall think about the problem they've got in Florida.

Here's the article

106 Burmese pythons captured in Florida, including 15-footer (http://news.yahoo.com/prizes-awarded-longest-largest-haul-pythons-144338695.html)

[Albert Clark]

I think it's a crying shame that all these animals have to be killed and turned into a purses, sneakers ,and wall portraits. Why can't they just be shipped to the Zoos across America? Do they deserve a fate of death? Especially the hatchlings and juveniles. Where is our animal conservation and protection? Why can't we come up with a better solution than mass murder of reptiles that wound up in a state by no fault of their own. Reptiles that are doing what every other animal is trying to do, stay alive! A very depressing state of affairs.

[trailblazer295]

What is done with the animals? I read the article yesterday and they did mention humane capture but left out what happens.

I do wonder if cheap Giants is an issue. Someone buying that cute baby and either don't know how big that baby will get or think they can handle it and realize they can't.

[RAD House]

Unfortunately I am not sure that there is much they can do with them. Most Zoos operate at the maximum capacity and there is not often room for more snakes. Because these snakes are so large so are their feeding and space needs so finding a home for them is nearly impossible. You can't really reintroduce them into their natural habitat due to concern of infectious disease. I hate to say it but the most humane thing may be a painless death, but they may have a better solution for at least some of them.
The price is driven by demand. The breeders could raise the price but then they will likely not be able to sell them. I think as with many problems the only solution is education, and I think it is the breeders responsibility to convey this. Also most people do not think that a few cases of private owners releasing their pets caused this invasion but the release of hundred of snakes from a breeding warehouse during a hurricane.

[AwesomeGuy376]

It's a shame to see these snakes likely killed.. Really hate that. I wish they'd drive their prices down and sell them cheap so they have a chance at life, other than just being killed. It's really irritating when people do things like that, more people should see snakes as animals and not threats..

[Minkness]

I'm all for humane euthanasia. I have the same stance on dogs and cats as well.

While it is a shame, it's necessary. There just isn't enough space, habbitate, or homes for these giants.

I personally believe that all giants should require Licensing. Then the cost of those license can support the capture and disposal of the now wild popilulation of animals that is distroying an already delicate ecosystem.

Keep in mind, these animals are NOT pets, they were NOT loved, they ARE dangerous, and they are NOT endangered. There is no reason to have hundresds or thousands roaming around outside.

[IW17]

I agree with mink. Unfortunately these are non-native species, and must be eliminated. It's a shame, but it's necessary. Rehoming would be futile, as most of these animals are now wild, and have a very nasty disposition. I love snakes, obviously, but it is an issue that needs fixed. That being said I don't believe it's as big an issue as they want us to believe it is. There are countless other invasive species that are wreaking havoc in many places. It's just easier to convince the public to kill a bunch of snakes, than it is to start "eliminating" all the feral neighborhood cats. Also don't believe the hype that these are released pets. It's pretty well understood by now that most of these animals came from hurricane Andrew.

[dannybgoode]

I am personally all for some type of licensing requirement for giants. In one way we're fortunate in the UK that our climate does not support a wild population of retics or Burmese but that does not stop people dumping them in canals and the like.

The fact that I could go online or join some Facebook group and have a snake with the potential of reaching 20' + delivered to my door for not a lot of money - no checks, no references is frankly scary.

The explosion in more and more extreme morphs is merely fuelling the irresponsible breeding of these snakes as well. I mean seriously - there must be a couple of thousand giants bred each year in the UK and there are a couple of thousand homes for them.

People buy them thinking they'd be a cool thing to own and then they see their once small retic, now a 12'+ snake, in full feeding mode and think **** - I can't handle this any more then just dump it on someone else.

Completely bonkers. I mean really, how many people truly have the time, money and experience to handle one of these snakes?

/rant mode off

[Tiny Boidae]

I don't have an issue with the collection and culling of any invasive species, not just burms, so long as it's humane and respectful to the animal in question (as in not a Rattlesnake Round-up for burms *shivers*). It's not an ideal solution, granted, but this isn't an ideal situation.

I doubt a total eradication is possible at this point without some serious funding and effort, although I do think we should encourage hunting for the skin and meat trade, which would put less pressure on other reptile skins with less problematic populations (crocodiles are what I'm thinking of here). I've heard of groups going out and collecting young tegus in Florida for the pet trade, and I'm sure I'd embrace the possibility of a similar fate in store for some captive-hatched specimens. Still, Florida's in a deep pile of cow crap as far as invasive species goes, it isn't just burms, and I think the state needs to adopt a policy similar to Georgia's, where you're not allowed to keep non-native animals as pets, although I'm sure a nice revision would be outlawing any live, non-native captives period.

[Minkness]

Invasive iguanas were so densely populated in some areas they were litterally falling on people out of trees and terrorizing small children and small animals, even killing some smaller dogs and cats as a territorial display.

I don't know about limiting non-nantive species, but a serious overhall in dealing with the current situations is certainly in order. As is licensing.

[Bandit]

My main question is this: what could possibly be done to eradicate the problem?

I just really don't see any way to completely wipe out these animals that are thriving out there and have proven to be so hard to find. There's a reason only 106 pythons were captured, and it's because the snakes know how to survive. 106 is not a lot when you think about how well they are doing.

[Bandit]

Also, let's assume that the state decides they only want to try to remove the bigger, more threatening animals (burms, iguanas, tegus, etc.). I just don't see it happening. The focus should be on preventing further invasion by exotics that are not already out there.

At what point do we just say, "they're here and there's nothing we can do about it." Because as much as I want to see it happen, I just can't imagine any number of people wiping out every single python, iguana, tegu, boa, monitor, chameleon, etc.

I know that a couple people recently found a red-tailed green rat snake out there. To my knowledge they haven't really been established in Florida. Tightening up regulations and increasing sanctions may be effective in preventing people from losing/letting go new species into the environment.

[Minkness]

Perhaps then it should just outlaw breeding or mass inports of those species? A few pets will die out before finding a mate, but a mass escape like during the hurricane is a serious issue.

As for dealing with the current population, I feel that if they could budget to hire more people, log more hours, and offer more incentive for citizens to hunt as well, that while not able to 'eradicate' the population, may help keep it in check. And that could go for all invasive species.

[Bandit]

I agree Mink. But I've been skeptical of the methods used thus far. The hunt is only a month and only in certain areas of the glades. So there are still many areas that are still safe for pythons during the hunt.

Another issue I have is that if you see a python and you don't have a permit to handle them, you can't kill them, capture them, or even touch them to keep them where they are until officials arrive. You'll get fined for handling them, which I think is ridiculous. I would understand getting fined for handling native species, but it would be much more productive to allow people to capture them and bring them in, or wait until officials come to take them. Because even if you report it, there's a solid chance that the snake won't be there by the time officials arrive.

[Aaron_S]

I think it's a crying shame that all these animals have to be killed and turned into a purses, sneakers ,and wall portraits. Why can't they just be shipped to the Zoos across America? Do they deserve a fate of death? Especially the hatchlings and juveniles. Where is our animal conservation and protection? Why can't we come up with a better solution than mass murder of reptiles that wound up in a state by no fault of their own. Reptiles that are doing what every other animal is trying to do, stay alive! A very depressing state of affairs.

Zoos are awesome. However they aren't necessarily set up to take in giant wild caught pythons. Man power, space or money are all potential reasons. Not to forget that wild caught specimens may strike at the glass of displays and hurt itself or scare people.

Then you have the issue of contaminating your current snakes.


What is done with the animals? I read the article yesterday and they did mention humane capture but left out what happens.

I do wonder if cheap Giants is an issue. Someone buying that cute baby and either don't know how big that baby will get or think they can handle it and realize they can't.

They are killed when they are round up in this yearly hunt.

[IW17]

I agree Mink. But I've been skeptical of the methods used thus far. The hunt is only a month and only in certain areas of the glades. So there are still many areas that are still safe for pythons during the hunt.

Another issue I have is that if you see a python and you don't have a permit to handle them, you can't kill them, capture them, or even touch them to keep them where they are until officials arrive. You'll get fined for handling them, which I think is ridiculous. I would understand getting fined for handling native species, but it would be much more productive to allow people to capture them and bring them in, or wait until officials come to take them. Because even if you report it, there's a solid chance that the snake won't be there by the time officials arrive.

I forgot about that. I'm going to assume they would say this is for the safety of the public, but it's really just a money grab. Why not let people hunt these animals the same way we hunt any other legal game species?

[chairman]

I believe that they require live capture because officials are pretty sure that the hunters will be bagging significant volumes of native snakes. Many seasoned outdoor people don't take the time to learn to identify snakes.

Similarly, large portions of the glades are protected from the hunt to prevent poachers of other wildlife from masquerading as "snake hunters."

Burms have no business being wild in FL. I think that they should all be humanely put down. Hunts like this can't possibly be very effective but they do represent a somewhat reasonable compromise when you consider the need to get rid of the invasives while protecting the natural environment. The best way to kill the burms in south FL is to just patiently wait for a 2-3 day cold snap during winter.

In reality, habitat loss has to be the greatest killer of Florida's native wildlife. But blaming large snakes is waaaay sexier.

[Bandit]

I believe that they require live capture because officials are pretty sure that the hunters will be bagging significant volumes of native snakes. Many seasoned outdoor people don't take the time to learn to identify snakes.

Similarly, large portions of the glades are protected from the hunt to prevent poachers of other wildlife from masquerading as "snake hunters."

Burms have no business being wild in FL. I think that they should all be humanely put down. Hunts like this can't possibly be very effective but they do represent a somewhat reasonable compromise when you consider the need to get rid of the invasives while protecting the natural environment. The best way to kill the burms in south FL is to just patiently wait for a 2-3 day cold snap during winter.

In reality, habitat loss has to be the greatest killer of Florida's native wildlife. But blaming large snakes is waaaay sexier.Very good points. I do like that they require live catches. You're right, people would be killing all sorts of snakes and then bringing them to the headquarters only to be told they killed the wrong snake. However, I do feel like people outside of the hunt should be legally allowed to capture burms, at the very least to hold them until officials arrive.

Unfortunately you're right about the cold snap. That will be the only truly effective way to kill them off. But I guess that lies in the hands of mother nature.

[Tiny Boidae]

Decided to look into the real "threat" of these bloodthirsty monsters....
In the US, dogs attacked 47 people in the year of 2014, and killed 27. Between 1978-2009, burmese pythons killed 16 people in the US, and most of these were in the captive care of irresponsible owners. I think the problem is definitely over-sensationalized, and doing a quick google search of what the media said a few years back, the titles usually ran along the lines of "Massive Burmese Pythons Invading the Florida Everglades- Squeezing the life out of the ecosystem". Definitely not beneficial, but no one seems to be in a hurry to make a sport out of killing Cuban Tree Frogs, or the nutria, or the scarlet macaw. I think more focus needs to be put in PREVENTING new species from becoming established, instead of trying to eradicate a species that we probably won't be able to dent. Hence why I think that any non-native species needs to be placed under a strict licensing law to prevent this problem from becoming worse.

(Interesting site if anyone wants to see all of what Florida is hosting right now: Nonnative Species (http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/) )

[Minkness]

A cold snap would need to be for a looooong time because if they burrow, the heat is held deep in the ground for a loooong time. It will almost never get cold enougj long enough to kill them off. And, if it did, it would kill off all the other wildlife that we want to protect.

[Bandit]

It's just shy of a dream to actually rid South Florida of the species that are already established there. So again, I think the focus should be on preventing the introduction of more species.

On a side note, when I visit South Florida (which will hopefully be within the next couple of years) I wouldn't mind taking home one of those wild veiled chameleons and one of those boas from Deering Estate. I have no idea what the regulations are about that outside of the Everglades, but I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one willing to do that lol.

[AwesomeGuy376]

Decided to look into the real "threat" of these bloodthirsty monsters....
In the US, dogs attacked 47 people in the year of 2014, and killed 27. Between 1978-2009, burmese pythons killed 16 people in the US, and most of these were in the captive care of irresponsible owners. I think the problem is definitely over-sensationalized, and doing a quick google search of what the media said a few years back, the titles usually ran along the lines of "Massive Burmese Pythons Invading the Florida Everglades- Squeezing the life out of the ecosystem". Definitely not beneficial, but no one seems to be in a hurry to make a sport out of killing Cuban Tree Frogs, or the nutria, or the scarlet macaw. I think more focus needs to be put in PREVENTING new species from becoming established, instead of trying to eradicate a species that we probably won't be able to dent. Hence why I think that any non-native species needs to be placed under a strict licensing law to prevent this problem from becoming worse.

(Interesting site if anyone wants to see all of what Florida is hosting right now: Nonnative Species (http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/) )

I hate how so many people are deathly afraid of snakes.. Its annoying when people automatically think a snake wants to kill them, then they shoot or harm it.. Especially when people think snakes like pythons are venomous.. One time we went herping and brought my friend along, we found a colubrid and she nearly tried to kill it out of fear (We were holding it so she couldnt touch it).. but yea

[Humble308]

Decided to look into the real "threat" of these bloodthirsty monsters....
In the US, dogs attacked 47 people in the year of 2014, and killed 27. Between 1978-2009, burmese pythons killed 16 people in the US, and most of these were in the captive care of irresponsible owners. I think the problem is definitely over-sensationalized, and doing a quick google search of what the media said a few years back, the titles usually ran along the lines of "Massive Burmese Pythons Invading the Florida Everglades- Squeezing the life out of the ecosystem". Definitely not beneficial, but no one seems to be in a hurry to make a sport out of killing Cuban Tree Frogs, or the nutria, or the scarlet macaw. I think more focus needs to be put in PREVENTING new species from becoming established, instead of trying to eradicate a species that we probably won't be able to dent. Hence why I think that any non-native species needs to be placed under a strict licensing law to prevent this problem from becoming worse.

(Interesting site if anyone wants to see all of what Florida is hosting right now: Nonnative Species (http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/) )

Interesting info, although I've got to think it's a bit out of context. How many people own dogs compared to giant pythons, naturally the number will be higher. I posed this subject as less of concern for humans as for the environment. I reckon more people are scared of their pets getting snatched up than getting hurt themselves.

One of the issues in my opinion is besides larger reptiles, the giant snakes don't have natural predators as adults. While some non-native species have had little impact on the ecosystem, others (the European Starling being a prime example) have devastated the local populations. When you've got snakes that can bring down small deer then we've got issues.

I'd have to go along with IW17 and say allow open game seasons on the snakes. As a hunter myself I've seen that populations can be managed through selective culling and monitoring. Problem is you get all these cooters shooting anything that slithers. While we all love animals and would prefer them to be rehomed, it's just not realistic. We have enough trouble at our shelter adopting out corns or RTB's, what're they supposed to with 100+ Burms!

I don't think licensing will solve too many problems but it's sure a step in the right direction. I find it curious that in my county you've got to have a dog license to adopt a dog from a shelter and go through the whole shabang with all the paperwork and a borderline background check...but you can go down to the local reptile expo and buy a retic and no one would be the wiser. It's kinda crappy to impose rules on folks who want to own them, but with such a large animal I think it's an increased amount of responsibility. I think here in Ohio you have to have a large constrictor permit, but I could be wrong on this. How bout yall, any local legislation regarding the larger snakes?

[IW17]

I believe that they require live capture because officials are pretty sure that the hunters will be bagging significant volumes of native snakes. Many seasoned outdoor people don't take the time to learn to identify snakes.

Similarly, large portions of the glades are protected from the hunt to prevent poachers of other wildlife from masquerading as "snake hunters."

Burms have no business being wild in FL. I think that they should all be humanely put down. Hunts like this can't possibly be very effective but they do represent a somewhat reasonable compromise when you consider the need to get rid of the invasives while protecting the natural environment. The best way to kill the burms in south FL is to just patiently wait for a 2-3 day cold snap during winter.

In reality, habitat loss has to be the greatest killer of Florida's native wildlife. But blaming large snakes is waaaay sexier.

Interesting info, although I've got to think it's a bit out of context. How many people own dogs compared to giant pythons, naturally the number will be higher. I posed this subject as less of concern for humans as for the environment. I reckon more people are scared of their pets getting snatched up than getting hurt themselves.

One of the issues in my opinion is besides larger reptiles, the giant snakes don't have natural predators as adults. While some non-native species have had little impact on the ecosystem, others (the European Starling being a prime example) have devastated the local populations. When you've got snakes that can bring down small deer then we've got issues.

I'd have to go along with IW17 and say allow open game seasons on the snakes. As a hunter myself I've seen that populations can be managed through selective culling and monitoring. Problem is you get all these cooters shooting anything that slithers. While we all love animals and would prefer them to be rehomed, it's just not realistic. We have enough trouble at our shelter adopting out corns or RTB's, what're they supposed to with 100+ Burms!

I don't think licensing will solve too many problems but it's sure a step in the right direction. I find it curious that in my county you've got to have a dog license to adopt a dog from a shelter and go through the whole shabang with all the paperwork and a borderline background check...but you can go down to the local reptile expo and buy a retic and no one would be the wiser. It's kinda crappy to impose rules on folks who want to own them, but with such a large animal I think it's an increased amount of responsibility. I think here in Ohio you have to have a large constrictor permit, but I could be wrong on this. How bout yall, any local legislation regarding the larger snakes?

Stopping people from killing any snake they see, is an easy fix. Make it illegal. Just like a deer hunter is responsible to know the difference between a whitetail deer and a keys deer. Once the heavy fines start rolling in on illegally killing protected species, the cowboys would dwindle away, and the responsible people looking to make a difference would be able to do so.

[Albert Clark]

Unfortunately I am not sure that there is much they can do with them. Most Zoos operate at the maximum capacity and there is not often room for more snakes. Because these snakes are so large so are their feeding and space needs so finding a home for them is nearly impossible. You can't really reintroduce them into their natural habitat due to concern of infectious disease. I hate to say it but the most humane thing may be a painless death, but they may have a better solution for at least some of them.
The price is driven by demand. The breeders could raise the price but then they will likely not be able to sell them. I think as with many problems the only solution is education, and I think it is the breeders responsibility to convey this. Also most people do not think that a few cases of private owners releasing their pets caused this invasion but the release of hundred of snakes from a breeding warehouse during a hurricane.
Thanks for putting that into perspective for me. It just seems that there is a better solution than killing them before , during or after capture. The pythons are killing off a lot of vermin. Unfortunately they are killing more of the native species and protected animals as well. Thanks again.

[dave himself]

If there are hundreds or indeed thousands of these large snakes roaming around, isn't this python hunt a PR stunt rather than a solution to a very serious problem. I don't have any answers myself, in fact if I was honest I think the burms are there to stay. If the reports are to believed they are doing better in the everglades than in their native homeland. I'm just glad I live in a country where the climate will not allow these snakes to survive, as already pointed out here burms and retics are being breed and sold at an alarming rate.

[Bandit]

If there are hundreds or indeed thousands of these large snakes roaming around, isn't this python hunt a PR stunt rather than a solution to a very serious problem. I don't have any answers myself, in fact if I was honest I think the burms are there to stay. If the reports are to believed they are doing better in the everglades than in their native homeland. I'm just glad I live in a country where the climate will not allow these snakes to survive, as already pointed out here burms and retics are being breed and sold at an alarming rate.Yes, the hunt is pretty much a PR stunt. And I agree with you, they are there to stay unless South Florida gets an unusually cold and long winter. As much as people say they won't survive a cold snap, I truly believe they can. I think it will have to be cold for a while to kill them off.

I understand where people are coming from, and I hate to see the native species being preyed upon by burms and other exotics, but they aren't going anywhere. It just so happens that South Florida has a perfect climate for many species that are not native there. However, I disagree with the media and ignorant legislatures that say the issue will spread. I seriously doubt many of those animals could survive the winters of anywhere past central Florida.

[RAD House]

Hunting has been proven to be a very effective population control in the United states. In some cases it shown to be so overly effective that in resulted in the elimination of keystone species. In less than a hundred years the population of American bison was reduced from 60,000,000 to 300 entirely due to hunting. Both the wolf and brown bear went extinct in the wild in the continental United states due to hunting. To say that this is not a curable problem is just not accurate, but the problem is if there is enough money to keep the hunters hungry. I agree IW17 about fines, just the threat of fines will make most people learn fairly quickly the difference between a python and a rat snake. I mean I have duck hunted for years and you must be able to tell the difference between species with in seconds from 100 feet away.

[Bandit]

On a side note, here in southern Louisiana we had a very mild winter. This was the warmest winter I've seen in a while. I know two exotics in my immediate have already been found (ball python in January and red tail boa in February). It will be interesting to see if more exotics are seen here this year since they could have easily survived the winter.

[Bandit]

Hunting has been proven to be a very effective population control in the United states. In some cases it shown to be so overly effective that in resulted in the elimination of keystone species. In less than a hundred years the population of American bison was reduced from 60,000,000 to 300 entirely due to hunting. Both the wolf and brown bear went extinct in the wild in the continental United states due to hunting. To say that this is not a curable problem is just not accurate, but the problem is if there is enough money to keep the hunters hungry. I agree IW17 about fines, just the threat of fines will make most people learn fairly quickly the difference between a python and a rat snake. I mean I have duck hunted for years and you must be able to tell the difference between species with in seconds from 100 feet away.I wasn't saying hunting couldn't be effective, but "the hunt" is not an effective way to get rid of them. It's too many inexperienced people hunting them in a very limited amount of time in very limited areas of South Florida.

Call me pessimistic, but I just don't see a man-made way to stop this with the way things are going. And I guess that's more of what I'm getting at - there may be ways to stop it, but at this point the means being used are not effective enough.

[IW17]

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately stopping any introduced exotic species once they've become established is futile. I'd love to hear one success story of eliminating a problem species from an ecosystem. But you never do because it's just not feasible. Nature is a big place with lots of hiding spots.