Would you buy a venomoid

[Lisa]

Would you buy a venomous snake if it's venom glands were removed?

[jason h]

i think if you cant look after them properly as nature made them then you shouldnt be keeping them at all,there are many beautiful snakes you can keep that dont need to be manipulated or altered,IMO:confused:

[Andy]

I would much rather keep a snake that only had a ductectomy then the glands removed. No sunken head.

[Scotty Allen]

Absolutely Not. Anyone performing such a procedure should have their veterinarian licence (if they are indeed a vet) revoked permanently and their name published world wide.

There is no earthly reason to have the venom glands removed, tied, cauterized etc. from a snake.

While I certainly do not condone the keeping of venomous snakes in the home, if you do, make sure you can handle the animal as it is.

If not, leave it for someone who can.

[Matt]

Scotty, Jason,
I agree 110%...good posts

[BWSmith]

First of all, as per the poll, who "buys" rescues?

I consider venomoids to be an abomination of nature. It is altering an animal to make it a "pet". It is like buying a pitbull and knocking out allt he teeth so it won't bite.

I do not know any vets that perform this surgury. Most are hack jobs by regular people who "have been doing it for years". The mortallity rate during the surgury is high. There has been a marked increase in the number venomoids on market since show like the Croc Hunter have become mainstream. I consider anyone who buys a venomoid or creates a "void" to have issues. These are mainly people who want to be able to say "I have a Cobra" and show off in front of friends. Voids (and venomous for that matter) are not status symbols and they do not make you cool. A void shows that you have no respect for the animal and no tru interest in venomous species as you are removing the distinguishing feature.

A venomoid is like a Porshe with no engine, only there to make the owner feel like a bigshot.

This is one of my shortest rants on voids, but I am at work ;)

[nuno]

I think that's cruel!! it's one thing to take venom for anti-venom research but to take out the glands is inhumane. I can appreciate Hot snakes, their venom is their best defence against a predator and their ally when they need to eat. I think venomous snakes should be kept in the wild where they belong.

Nuno

[BurmBaroness]

I have to say I totally agree that venomoids are an abomination against nature. They are butchered, their defense is gone, and I have also heard that it affects their digestion as well. In my mind, if you need to own a venomoid, you are not a herp lover, you are someone who thinks they have to show off. Keeping of hots is not something that everyone should do, and I have no interest in doing so, but it is cruel to mutilate these animals for "Coolness"

[snakemann87]

I and my herp group are totally against venomoids. I believe that you should just leave venoms and all animals at that how god created them. If you cannot handle a venomous animal then don't get one.

[Lizzy001]

i think that people should respect the snakes defences and leave it alone/.....no one has the right to judge what has what!:mad:

[Steeve B]

Pleas peoples don’t give your self a clear conscience over this mater, there are other more demanding issues to be concern about when it comes to animal welfare. This is Cleopatra she is 15 years old I got her as a venomiod as hatchelling, and treated her as venomous, many years ago I had a huge collection of cobras, they are very interesting and intelligent snakes, but most of all dangerous. Except for research theirs no valuable reason to keep any reptiles in captivity, nevertheless we do, we keep them for our own enjoyment and that’s how it shod be. Its not immoral to be safe, but it is to jeopardise safety, now you will say if you cant handle it leave it alone, non sense, tragic accidents happened with very experienced herpetologist me included, when I read such post I can help thinking about this fellow hoe called me desperate to find an escaped cobra, we fund the escape next door on second floor of a 42 apartment building.
A lady complained about rodents in her floor, what’s real scary about this it was an elderly apartment complex.
I did catch the snake and never returned it to its keeper, now it’s easy to speculate about the keepers responsibilities, but the fact of the mater is an accident is sometime unpredictable. We spade are mammalian friends and claw them to protect our furniture, now why on earth cant we devenomise them to save our life and still enjoy and learn from them.
What I think is awfully wrong is treating vonomoids as none venomous and interact with them in such idiotic way as jack the snake Robert using a venomoid king cobra to bite macho man on national TV.
No offence to anyone on this forum, its easy to put energy defending an unjustified cause, it’s much harder to avoid staling herpetocultures slow progression. Kind regards
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Feb/20032203749245894287288.jpg :)

[BWSmith]

claw them to protect our furniture
well, I don't believe in that either, but at least it is done by a vet.

I got her as a venomiod as hatchelling, and treated her as venomous
Very nice. I like to hear that. Just out of curiosity, have you tried to milk her lately just to make sure that the "surgury" is still in tact?

Except for research theirs no valuable reason to keep any reptiles in captivity, nevertheless we do, we keep them for our own enjoyment and that’s how it shod be
But the same can be said for any animal, dogs, cats, fish, rabbits. Reptiles have been kept in captivity for years. The difference is that we are talking about inherently dangerous animals being modified to make them "safe". There is no doubt that keeping venomous is dangerous. That is a risk that hot keepers accept. And just like with anything else, there are irresponsible keeprs. Under NO circumstances should a hot be kept in an apartment. The risk is too great if there is an escape. But by the same token, to my knowledge, there has NEVER been an envenomation of an innocent associated with an escaped venomous.

Many hot keepers use venomous for educational purposes and research (sometimes official, sometimes not). Then again, many keep for the sheer fascination of these magnifiscant predators. But what is the mentallity behind getting a venomoid? Research? Not likely as the venom no longer is a factor and subsequent behavioral changes. Education? I am unaware of any cobra, mamba, or true viper species in North America. So what are we educating on? Even if exotic venomous are used in education, there is no need for them to be removed from the enclosure, so again, a venomoid is not neccessary. Fascination? If fascination with venomous is the driving factor, why remove the object of your fascination from the animal. If I was fascinated with Race Horses, but could not safely keep one, i would not have it's legs cut off so I could.

What I think is awfully wrong is treating vonomoids as none venomous and interact with them in such idiotic way
I agree. Unfortunately, that is probably 99.9% of void owners. (I estimated it to be 100% before reading your post ;) )

its easy to put energy defending an unjustified cause, it’s much harder to avoid staling herpetocultures slow progression
ok, I understand a bit of this. Maybe there are just a few letters missing that makes it unclear to me. All i can get out of it is the unjust cause. So in regard to that. There are many battles to be fought. many of us fight many. We have to logically and respectfully fight them within our community and come together as whole when legislation threatens herpetoculture. But I do not consider fighting the creation and sale of voids to be an unjust cause. i feel it is unjust to alter such creatures to make them basically a novelty. The very essence of what they are is being taken from them. That is unjust.

Just out of curiosity, why did you decide to buy a venomoid?





Good debate, staying civil, i love it! :D

[Steeve B]

Well Cleo was one of the first albino offered, she was the first Iv seen and somehow I knew she probably who’d of died in inexperienced hands, I knew nothing about vonomoids and wasn’t thrilled about not knowing if shed survive or not, I took a chance and never regretted it until I gave here away few years ago, my wife and I still miss her.
Other then she always fed on dead rodents she was just as interesting and fascinating as any cobras IV kept.
My statement wasn’t to say don’t do this or that, no its just to say better keep and learn about animals we cherish even as vonomoids, then have legislation banning the keeping of venomous snakes like we have in Quebec.
Theirs no denying I much prefer non altered animals, but its my responsibility to protect my love ones, my neighbours and my herp society, at least till the general public better understand these animals and accepts them as they are, but first they will need to accept us as we are right? The bottom line is, at this time in my life if I was allowed Cleo who’d have my nicest cage in my house with my family, venomoid or not.
Kind regards

[Lisa]

I'm glad this topic sparked up so much emotion. There are many people out there that don't realise how bad it is to do this to a snake. It's even worse then declawing a cat (to declaw a cat they cut back to the first knuckle), at least the cat is being worked on by a professional vet. You know the cat has claws, so if you don't want it clawing your furnature don't get a cat. But thats besides the point. I'm not sure publishing a persons name that does the venomoid surgery is a good idea, the line "There's no such thing as bad publicity" comes to mind. I don't know about you, but *I* certainly don't want to advertise for these bums.


Originally posted by BWSmith
First of all, as per the poll, who "buys" rescues?


Many rescue organizations require a fee for you to addopt the animal. Other times people will buy an animal to rescue it from inhumane conditions.

[reverendsterlin]

to me venomoids rank right next to the large iguana that had it's tail removed to prevent whipping or a dog that had it's throat cut to prevent barking. That acute sense of mortality is what prevents many people that shouldn't from owning venomous and makes most experienced keepers use proven handling techniques.

[BWSmith]

AMEN Reverend!! :D

the number of YES's has risen slightly. I am curious why these that answered YES, would keep a void.I like seeing both sides of the fence. I admire SteeveB for being honest in the face of majority.

[Steeve B]

If I may ad one last comment, it was never broth to my attention, that these animals where being altered by less then qualified peoples, this not only changes my perspective of vonomoids, but shod I have known about this never I who’d have both such and animal. With this said, because I did keep a venomoid, I now know that they can live a long and healthy life in this altered state. Maybe this shod be considered in the scale of justice. Kind regards

[BWSmith]

Most people are not aware that the snakes are produced by "Herpers" and not vets.

[Steeve B]

This is of topic, but you talked about Fry on an other tread, wasn’t he killed years ago on a field trip in Madagascar?
cheers

[Xetox]

I would not buy a resuce! But as someone that does rescues I would not turn someone down just becuase the process has happened, I normally try to take in and find homes for most any reptiles!

[BWSmith]

This is of topic, but you talked about Fry on an other tread, wasn’t he killed years ago on a field trip in Madagascar?

Which Fry?