View Full Version : HDPE - need interpretation help
Ok... so with all the recent safety issues in regard to plastics and offgassing... I figure I had better check it out better before I go ahead with any of the projects. When I researched the material before it seemed my best bet for chemical resistance, durability, etc., but I never found anything on offgassing. So I found this great little chart, but am having trouble interpretting the offgassing stuff :( If someone could help me it would be greatly appreciated! :D
http://www.bibby-sterilin.com/cat/azlon/hdpe.htm
Hey Linds;
That sheet is more advertising the product than anything else. I couldn't find a data sheet specifically for the Azlon product, but generally high density polyethylene is quite safe. (as long as it isn't heated over about 95 deg C. or about 200 deg F.) If this is for your rack system, there will be enough ventilation to take care of the small amount of particulates that are present.
(how's that for a load of big words:D ) .. well a load of something anyway:)
Here's what I've found so far:
Plywood Med offgassing
pressure treated high offgassing - nasty chemicals (arsenic is one)
exterior grade birch very low offgassing
Masonite Low offgassing
MDF high offgassing
Medite med offgassing
Melamine high offgassing - nasty chemicals (arsenic & polynuclear compounds???)
Formica low offgassing
PVC plastic high Offgassing
PVC Foam High offgassing
Extruded polystyrene very low offgassing
Polyethylene very low offgassing
polypropylene low offgassing
polycarbonate
Virgin Med offgassing
recompounded(recycled) low offgassing
ABS low offgassing
Acrylic
Plexiglass
Vinyl High offgas with low heat
Epoxy High offgas with low heat
All plastics will offgas nasty stuff if heated above (about) 200 deg F.
Okay .. my cut and paste obviously didn't work that great. Just imagine all the info above nicely formatted and spaced.:D
Oooooooooooo... so melamine isnt a very safe material after all. I don't think I will want to be using that anymore :eek:
Thanks for all the great info Quervo, very informative as always! :thumbsup:
lol .. yeeees, I'm trying to find out just what the heck polynuclear compounds are, bu they really don't sound good!:confused:
Forgive my ignorance....but what is offgasing? Does it have something to do with dangerous particles emitted by the product.
Like unnoticeable fumes? So many people use melamine and I was thinking about using it myself, I've never heard of anything bad happening with its use....looks like birch is the safest way to go.....Is high offgasing insignificant with the type of temps used in reptile enclosures? Fill me in on this..
Yvonne .. where have you been ?? lol :D
Yes, offgassing is the release of nasty chemicals form .. well, damn near everything we use.
In my search for cage materials I hve discovered some scary specs on what we build our houses (and cages) out of. I posted a message earlier under the heading of "safe cage materials" if it's still in the archives it explains things a bit.
Essentially, the same cause of "sick house syndrome" is present in the cages we are building (and they are more confined). These chemicals cause dizzyness, dry throat, respiratory problems, general stress (starting to sound familiar?).
They won't kill your pet ...... directly....... but they do make life more miserable.
I would think that some animals are more susceptible than others (just like some people are more allergic to them than others), so anytime I see someone ask why their pet has a problem they can't explain .. i wonder.
Okay, I'll shut up now.
I could rant for hours.:rolleyes:
I tried to search for that post a week ago to find that it had been one of the posts that had been deleted prior to the idea of archiving the old posts. I swore I had it saved on my pooter though, it was a great post, but I have been searching for the past half hour and havent found a thing :( Damn disappearing files! :hammer:
wow, that is scarey stuff....i'm going to re think my housing plans...
I'm getting a web page started, so I'll redo the safe materials thing (it's grown since last time) and put it up for you guys in the next couple of days.:cool:
Keith
Corey Woods
05-16-02, 08:51 PM
Linds,
I've never read the enclosure forum until today. Anyways, the company I work for stores products for 2 plastic companies. One of those companies is Custom Resin which is based out of USA. They produce all types and grades of raw plastic to be sold to molding companies. Anyways, I phoned up my contact person to inquire about HDPE (we've got around 10,000 Kg's of the stuff sitting in our warehouse). I was told that on it's own most plastics are innert. So, in it's pure form you won't have a problem (there are virtually no offgasses). Were you will run into a problem is when they start adding things to the plastics (such as to change their colour, density, molecular structure...etc). The additives may not be so pleasant for your reptiles.
I also found out that sheets of plastic are very expensive. I can get you sheets of plastic for cost through my contact. I know what the product costs as it is declared on the customs paperwork when it enters into the country. The plastic alone doesn't cost that much (anywhere from $0.50 - 3.00) per pound.....the main cost is molding and transportation. A 3/4" sheet of HDPE that is 4x8 is going to cost in around $400. That would be clean HDPE in it's natural forum (milky white) with no additives added.
Corey
Yikes! Ive already conferenced with a plastic company down my way about 3 months ago or so, and they are charging me $38- for a 4x8 sheet. I would rather not build my racks out of plastic, but I do want to build my cages out of it. Who knows. All this cage building stuff is so overwhelming at times :( I want to do it all right the first time, but I want to make sure it is safe too! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr........................
Hey Linds (and all) .. I have the page up .. it's VERY basic cause I'm still learning the page building program (but you're in trouble when I figure out how to put my animations up:cool: ), but it has the info I've collected so far.
Just click on the egg (an egg being a safe haven .. get it?):rolleyes:
www.geocities.com/safe_havens
Thanks Quervo, I'll be sure to check it out soon!
Sean_.E.
05-19-02, 05:11 PM
ok im confused!:confused: I have used Melamine in a reptile enclosure! Does it only give off gasses when it is heated to a temperature over 200 deg F or all the time. Sorry,Im just really confused! Too many big words and stuff!lol:confused:
Sean;
Most plastics are fairly stable at room temp, and get nasty when heated. All plastic will offgas when heated (the heat range varies though).
Wood products will offgas at room temp, but will offgas more when heated. Melamine offgasses more from the MDF that is used as a base so it will offgas all the time.
Now as I've said .. it won't kill your herp, but consider what it does to us in a large enclosure (our house) and look at the confined space of most cages. It must stress them out .. and that aint good.:mad:
C.Marshell
05-20-02, 06:50 AM
What about all the big breeders in the states that have used it for years!..IMO..An animal that reproduces on a consistant basis in captivity must be trhiving,and not merly surviving...you mention that it MUST stress them out!..well,a stressed out reptile will not olny not reproduce..but usually will not eat as well...plain and simple,if left long enough,stress kills herps!
Don't get me wrong...i'm not bashing you here,..just wondering if there is any documented proof that these gases directly effect the health of our animals?
c.marshell
Well that's the whole point .. there's more and more proof that offgassing is killing us .. but no-one bothers to look at the animals (as usual). If offgassing does such (long term) damage to us, I don't see how it wouldn't to the reptiles.
In my opinion this explains a lot of the mysterious respiratory and skin problems I keep reading about in various forums.
I could be wrong .. but I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Sorry .. more ranting to come :D ..
As to the breeders that have been using it .. we have been building houses, furniture, cabinets, etc, etc for years and are just now starting to look at what it is doing to us. It's just now that people are starting to question what effects the things we use are having, that the problems are being realized.
There .. I think I'm done.:rolleyes:
C.Marshell
05-20-02, 10:18 PM
The thing is..there are all diferent types of melimine..the stuff that im using,is e grade,witch is used in what they call healthy homes..its cured so that it doesnt offgas,its a little more pricey,but worth it,in my opinion...they also use it in senior citizens complexes..and it is certified,not to offgass,i will see if i can get the specs from tony,at C.K.C.S,and post them.
c.m
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