Petsmart Selling Albino Ball Pythons

[reticsbydzine]

Well its official petsmart in clarksville TN is selling albino balls ..heres my problem its unsexed and they wont let the customer sex it and they want 499.00 for it...i dont like the idea of it at all..what does everyone think about this

[Mikoh4792]

Too expensive, unsexed, and it's petsmart. Three reasons not to buy.

I'd look at kingsnake classifieds or fauna classifieds and buy from a reputable breeder.

[poison123]

Too expensive, unsexed, and it's petsmart. Three reasons not to buy.

I'd look at kingsnake classifieds or fauna classifieds and buy from a reputable breeder.

Fourth reason, Its a ball python :p

I too think there are better options rather then petsmart.

[jpsteele80]

Too expensive, unsexed, and it's petsmart. Three reasons not to buy.

I'd look at kingsnake classifieds or fauna classifieds and buy from a reputable breeder.

My thoughts exactly :D

[reticsbydzine]

Oh i wasnt asking if i should buy it lol i know better ..its a 300 snake..

[StudentoReptile]

Do people get this riled up about Petsmart selling albino kingsnakes and cornsnakes?

[poison123]

Do people get this riled up about Petsmart selling albino kingsnakes and cornsnakes?

My opinion stands on any snake they sell. There are better options.

[StudentoReptile]

I know Petsmart is not perfect, but there's a thousand other venues that sell unsexed, overpriced "morphs.": half the vendors at any expo, online classifieds, other pet stores (national chain or otherwise), etc...

I think its little hypocritical for people to single out Petsmart for selling albino BPs, when they have been been selling mutations of cornsnakes, kingsnakes, and milksnakes for 10 yrs and few people whine about it. I used to work for Petsmart, and again, while they are not perfect, other than simply not offering unsexed snakes, I don't feel they are the most horrible place to buy a snake from. I cringe when I go through an expo and see albino snakes on the same table as WC stuff and there's mites everywhere. I see tons of "so-called" reputable breeders online everyday posting about mites and how sick their snakes are, etc.

If someone just wants a pet snake, and doesn't care what gender it is, and they are willing to pay the price that a petstore has, and the snake is healthy/feeding well, can someone give me a reason why they shouldn't get it?

OH WAIT! I forgot, this is a popular reptile forum and we don't advocate people buying from pet stores...ever. ;) That breaks some kind of rule or something right? I mean, come on folks...the BP market has finally reached a point where mutations are becoming affordable to the general public who just want "pets." If that gets more people into the hobby, is that a bad thing? Are people whining just because this may affect the fragile BP market somehow, or maybe they just have a beef against big-chain pet stores? Sheesh...

Like I said in the beginning, if this was an albino cornsnake, no one would bat an eye. Love the double standard in the hobby, which is why I don't even associate with that side of it anymore.

[StudentoReptile]

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating that if your desire is to breed snakes, you should not buy from a reputable breeder.

But that is not the demographic that these big chain pet stores cater to, and they are acutely aware of that. They are advertising to the beginner/average pet keeper and they have always done that.

[poison123]

there's a thousand other venues that sell unsexed, overpriced "morphs.": half the vendors at any expo, online classifieds, other pet stores (national chain or otherwise), etc...

And there are better options


I think its little hypocritical for people to single out Petsmart for selling albino BPs, when they have been been selling mutations of cornsnakes, kingsnakes, and milksnakes for 10 yrs and few people whine about it. I used to work for Petsmart, and again, while they are not perfect, other than simply not offering unsexed snakes, I don't feel they are the most horrible place to buy a snake from. I cringe when I go through an expo and see albino snakes on the same table as WC stuff and there's mites everywhere. I see tons of "so-called" reputable breeders online everyday posting about mites and how sick their snakes are, etc.

Again I could care less on what species it is. There are better options if you want a sexed, reasonable priced and in some locations healthy snakes then a petsmart.

If someone just wants a pet snake, and doesn't care what gender it is, and they are willing to pay the price that a petstore has, and the snake is healthy/feeding well, can someone give me a reason why they shouldn't get it?

No. But the OP is not willing to pay that price and does care about the gender (so it seems).

OH WAIT! I forgot, this is a popular reptile forum and we don't advocate people buying from pet stores...ever. ;) That breaks some kind of rule or something right? I mean, come on folks...the BP market has finally reached a point where mutations are becoming affordable to the general public who just want "pets." If that gets more people into the hobby, is that a bad thing? Are people whining just because this may affect the fragile BP market somehow, or maybe they just have a beef against big-chain pet stores? Sheesh...

Well none of this really has anything to do with me since I have no problem with petstores that have healthy animals and don't care for the bp morphs.

Like I said in the beginning, if this was an albino cornsnake, no one would bat an eye. Love the double standard in the hobby, which is why I don't even associate with that side of it anymore.

Don't know what to say.

[StudentoReptile]

Poison, my post wasn't really directed at you, more at the OP. I think we see eye-to-eye on this.

But the OP is not willing to pay that price and does care about the gender (so it seems).

If this is the OP's only issue with the matter, then there will be many people selling overpriced snakes. The solution is simple, as others as suggested: purchase what you are looking for from a source that actually offers it.

My only point is don't trash a company that does not sell a product you desire. Its not their fault. Its just you whining.

[reticsbydzine]

Wow no one was trashing them ..the corn morphs they sell are reasonably priced. .just trying to get a conversation started..

[Mikoh4792]

studentofreptile I don't think people are as riled up or whiny about petsmart as you are taking them to be. We are just saying the snake is overpriced, unsexed, and it's petsmart. There's a separation between those qualities because we recognise other places sell overpriced and unsexed animals too.

From what I have seen, I will not recommend petsmart to anyone looking for a pet. The petsmarts and petco's I've been to do not care for their animals and often neglect them. I do not support that kind of business. I will direct an inquiring person to a reputable breeder, since that person is on here asking anyways..... As said by another poster there are better options.

[StudentoReptile]

Perhaps not.

Well its official petsmart in clarksville TN is selling albino balls ..heres my problem its unsexed and they wont let the customer sex it and they want 499.00 for it...i dont like the idea of it at all..what does everyone think about this

The reason they don't sex is basically liability. Its not like looking at a mammal, where the male has a pair and females don't. Same reason they don't sex their smaller birds. Two many things to look for and too much trouble to train staff, and they don't want to risk someone injuring the snake. I know, I know, for an experienced herper, not that a big deal, but in the same token, I've seen a lot of damage done by so-called "experienced" herpers. ;)

This is the same reason they do not allow customers to probe them before purchase. Regardless of how simple we view it, it is inserting a device into the animal which constitutes as a "procedure." They're not going to let anyone do that, and have that customer inadvertently injure that animal (in business terms, a valuable asset to sell), which would take that animal off the sales floor and they can't sell it. That sounds a little cold, but it is a reality: they are a business of which the prime objective to is make a profit and injured animals are conducive to that goal. Likewise, anything that could possibly lead to injured animals (including letting customers probe them at any given time) is not something they are going to allow. Now, you can buy the snake, take it home, probe it or have it probed, but you can't gripe at them for it not being sex you want because they specifically outline they do not guarantee gender. Its all on the risk of the buyer. [Now, I suppose if you injured the snake while probing it AFTER you bought it, you could still return the animal within the allotted time, but personally, I would think that is kinda douche-baggish, because the customer injured the snake performing a procedure to determine something not even guaranteed by the seller....just my $0.02]
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Once more, I'm not necessarily trying to say that PETsMART is perfect and wonderful. They are not, and IMHO, no pet store is. But honestly, I have seen A LOT of pet stores, both big corporate-name, and small-town mom/pop shops, and on the whole, I don't think PETsMART does a bad job with the herps they sell. I think its GREAT that they do not sell iguanas or monitors, or giant snakes. I don't totally agree with some of the husbandry they have and advocate for tortoises, and maybe some of the smaller lizards (anoles, long-tail lizards, etc.), but when it comes to snakes, they have a pretty standardized system going, and from firsthand experience, it works fairly well. Like I said, their demographic is beginners and noobs, and believe or not, there are people out there who don't give a flying flip what gender the snake is, they just want an albino python, and Burms aren't going to cut it. I have a longer rant about How to Deal with "Bad" Pet Stores: here. (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/94256-how-deal-bad-pet-shops-zoos-etc.html)

Yeah, most people getting into the breeder side of things aren't going to go to PETsMART for new stock, and honestly, have they ever? No...they'll go to breeders in the private sector, and there's plenty of scummy places to get animals there, too, but that's a topic within itself.

Bottom line: If you want a burger, go to a burger joint, not the taco stand.

[StudentoReptile]

studentofreptile I don't think people are as riled up or whiny about petsmart as you are taking them to be. We are just saying the snake is overpriced, unsexed, and it's petsmart. There's a separation between those qualities because we recognise other places sell overpriced and unsexed animals too.

From what I have seen, I will not recommend petsmart to anyone looking for a pet. The petsmarts and petco's I've been to do not care for their animals and often neglect them. I do not support that kind of business. I will direct an inquiring person to a reputable breeder, since that person is on here asking anyways..... As said by another poster there are better options.

Well, maybe the whining accusation was a little premature, and fundamentally I agree that: YES, there are better places to buy snakes (and other reptiles), especially if you don't want to pay full retail price and you want to know the gender of the snake.

But in the same token, there are a lot of worse places to get them, too, and most of them are not pet stores. I would recommend PETsMART over a LOT of places and people in the hobby, and that is just in my hometown.

I was merely trying to offer a bigger/different perspective on the topic. I have found very few pet stores (big and small) that guarantee sex on any reptile, so this is nothing to new to us. That was where my "burger/taco" comment came from.
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If the issue is that people just have a problem with pet stores period (and maybe the big names like PETCO, and PETsMART in particular) because they don't care for their herps a certain way, or possibly being neglected, I just find it a little hypocritical to single out the pet stores because I can start ticking off a dozen "bad guys" for every pet store mentioned. Just take a look at the exalted, so-called "infallible" BOI.

If the issue is that they are offering unsexed, high-priced reptiles, well....what's the big news? We're herpers, not noobs. We already knew that. The only thing that has changed is that they have started carrying $500 BPs in addition to $60 colubrids. If the store does not have the product you are looking for, buy elsewhere. Simple solution.

[Little Wise Owl]

How much are Albino BP's usually? $500 doesn't seem outrageous to me (especially from a pet store)... Then again, I haven't been in the market for a BP in a while.

[Mikoh4792]

Well, maybe the whining accusation was a little premature, and fundamentally I agree that: YES, there are better places to buy snakes (and other reptiles), especially if you don't want to pay full retail price and you want to know the gender of the snake.

But in the same token, there are a lot of worse places to get them, too, and most of them are not pet stores. I would recommend PETsMART over a LOT of places and people in the hobby, and that is just in my hometown.

I was merely trying to offer a bigger/different perspective on the topic. I have found very few pet stores (big and small) that guarantee sex on any reptile, so this is nothing to new to us. That was where my "burger/taco" comment came from.
---------
If the issue is that people just have a problem with pet stores period (and maybe the big names like PETCO, and PETsMART in particular) because they don't care for their herps a certain way, or possibly being neglected, I just find it a little hypocritical to single out the pet stores because I can start ticking off a dozen "bad guys" for every pet store mentioned. Just take a look at the exalted, so-called "infallible" BOI.

If the issue is that they are offering unsexed, high-priced reptiles, well....what's the big news? We're herpers, not noobs. We already knew that. The only thing that has changed is that they have started carrying $500 BPs in addition to $60 colubrids. If the store does not have the product you are looking for, buy elsewhere. Simple solution.

I agree with you that Petsmart or any other chain pet store for the matter is not the only bad place to buy from. But from my experience(since you seem to have visited petsmarts with ideal husbandry), petsmart is still one of those bad choices. I wouldn't recommend a private breeder who also practices and advocates subpar husbandry for his/her animals.

The issue is not really for me, it's for the new person inquiring. I'm just letting newcomers know that there are better places to go to, even if you're just looking for a pet.

[StudentoReptile]

Mind you, my standards are pretty high. I understand that there are always bad eggs, which are usually the result of bad management, not necessarily the lower level staff under them. But as a whole, taking into account what I see at MOST reptile shows, and what I see on MOST online venues (from craigslist all the way to KS and Fauna), and what I see in a lot of people's collections, PETsMART does not coming looking too bad.

Think about it...how many times does a snake pass hands before ending up in your collection? How many people REALLY practice good QT practices, etc. (I'm not saying PETsMART does, but stay with me for a min...)? Of course, if you buy DIRECTLY from a breeder, you do cut a lot of that out,, but I will tell you that dealing with the GENERAL PUBLIC for 15+ yrs, many people are just plain lazy. They know perfectly well they can get stuff a lot cheaper off Amazon, but they'll still shop in store at Walmart. Likewise, when they want a PET, they whip out the yellow pages (or nowadays, their smartphone) and find the nearest pet store. How many snake breeders you gonna find in the online yellow pages, or YAHOO or whatever? Most Joe Smiths don't even begin to know how to think how to look for someone who breeds and sells snakes: they go to the pet store. I'm not saying its smart; its just the world we live in.

So anywho...all the snakes PETsMART sells are CBB. Maybe some of their lizard species are farmed, but the colubrids and BPs and rosy boas come straight from breeders. They HAVE to be on a strict diet of F/T mice (not something I entirely agree with but that's another topic - business-wise, its easy for the consumer) before they arrive in the store. They don't have great QT practices, but honestly, who does? [I'm not perfect myself, and if anyone thinks they are, I'll gleefully start to pick you apart :) Again, proper QT practices could be a topic within itself.] Be that as it may, I have never seen snake mites in a PETsMART. And you're going to get an animal that as only exchanged hands once (breeder > pet store) before it got to you, and it is feeding well (otherwise they wouldn't sell it per policy). Personally, I don't want a snake that has been passed around like a baseball card and I don't know its history coming into my house.
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If you ask me, I think PETCO has a far worse rep than PETsMART, especially from what I have witnessed personally and read from others' accounts, in regards to animal care, management and customer service.

[Little Wise Owl]

Maybe it's just my area but I've never seen reptiles being poorly cared for in a chain pet store (Petsmart and PJ's Pet Centre, mostly).

[Mikoh4792]

Do the petsmarts you go to house their snakes individually? The ones I've been to put a dozen or so boa constrictors, cornsnakes...etc together in small enclosures so most of them do not have access to hiding areas.

Again, I don't care if it's petsmart or a private breeder. Those lazy people you mentioned are also people I would advise against getting a pet snake from.

If a newcomer comes here to ask, why not steer that person in a better direction? I understand you cant do anything for people that don't think to come onto an online forum to ask these questions and don't know about the BOI...etc, but right now we are just concerned about people who are actually inquiring, such as the OP who asked us what we thought about the albino ball python in a petsmart going for nearly $500. If OP asks me, I'm not ranting or raving about petsmart, I'm just saying there are better options.

[StudentoReptile]

And I'll say another thing: those with bad experiences with PETsMART or any other business. What did you do about it? I'm not asking for each person's story because I'm not the CEO, I don't care (lol). But just putting it out there: did you talk to management? Did the issue not get resolved? If not, how far did you take it?

I only these questions, because if you just gripe and moan this and that (that animal is not being cared for properly, or I had a bad customer experience, etc...whatever the heck it was), and you NEVER took it as far as you could go, then don't complain too much. I'm not saying that every time you do so, the situation may get resolved the way you want, but at least you can say you did all you could do. On the flip side, for example, if you think Bob's Snake Store is not caring for their BPs well, and you just walk out of the store and tell everyone not to shop there, and you never took the time to even speak to the management about your concerns, you're not being a part of the solution, and you certainly cannot expect Bob's Snake Store to change anything, if they do not know someone even had a problem.

I know these big chain stores are a greater hurdle to deal with, but they are not impossible. If you spoke to the Pet Care Manager, and still felt you weren't being heard, go over their head and contact the District Manager. Sooner or later, someone will hear you. I know because the store I worked for was one of the VERY first stores that started selling snakes, and I butted heads with my Store Director and Managers constantly over husbandry issues, often putting my own paycheck/job on the line. I often had meetings with our District Manager because of it so someone would hear me out.

Again, some stuff I still don't agree with how they do things, but no business is perfect. It takes a lot to run any business, and pet stores especially. Which is why I don't do it myself.

[Little Wise Owl]

Do the petsmarts you go to house their snakes individually? The ones I've been to put a dozen or so boa constrictors, cornsnakes...etc together in small enclosures so most of them do not have access to hiding areas.

Not sure if you're asking me or Student but the places I go to typically have the snakes housed individually or SOMETIMES there may be two or three. They're given hides so you rarely see them anyway.

[StudentoReptile]

Do the petsmarts you go to house their snakes individually? The ones I've been to put a dozen or so boa constrictors, cornsnakes...etc together in small enclosures so most of them do not have access to hiding areas.

Yes and no. The long answer is they typically do not carry that many to house together. I know they do not house the kings and milks together.

Just to be clear, are you speaking about PETsMART specifically, and not PETCO or another company? Because I find it very unusual they would have a dozen of one species of snake. They have strict policies about the quantities they can order, and can have in store at any given time, as well as a particular budget to order herps each week. The total # of snakes I have ever seen was 6 baby cornsnakes in one compartment. But I have seen 3x that many at expos crammed in a single large deli cup and in other pet stores, so its not just them. [shrugs]

And also, you actually saw Boa constrictor sp for sale at a PETsMART? I have never heard of that or seen it, and find it unusual since that is a large species and goes beyond the "Beginner/Intermediate" species they usually carry. I ask because I know PETCO sells them, and other companies, but never a PETsMART. The biggest species i I have ever seen PETsMART sell are BPs, rosy boas and sand boas.

[poison123]

There are petsmarts out here that sell BCI's.

[Mikoh4792]

Yes and no. The long answer is they typically do not carry that many to house together. I know they do not house the kings and milks together.

Just to be clear, are you speaking about PETsMART specifically, and not PETCO or another company? Because I find it very unusual they would have a dozen of one species of snake. They have strict policies about the quantities they can order, and can have in store at any given time, as well as a particular budget to order herps each week. The total # of snakes I have ever seen was 6 baby cornsnakes in one compartment. But I have seen 3x that many at expos crammed in a single large deli cup and in other pet stores, so its not just them. [shrugs]

And also, you actually saw Boa constrictor sp for sale at a PETsMART? I have never heard of that or seen it, and find it unusual since that is a large species and goes beyond the "Beginner/Intermediate" species they usually carry. I ask because I know PETCO sells them, and other companies, but never a PETsMART. The biggest species i I have ever seen PETsMART sell are BPs, rosy boas and sand boas.

It was Petsmart and from what I could tell they were colombian boa constrictor imperator. I exaggerated by saying they keep a dozen snakes together, that may have been true for cornsnakes but with ball pythons and boas there were always more than one per enclosure.

[StudentoReptile]

There are petsmarts out here that sell BCI's.

Interesting to know. I've always figured they considered them too large and/or too potentially dangerous/controversial to carry. Guess I was wrong on that point, and/or maybe they just finally decided to branch out and figured $$$ was more important than the potential risk factor.

[Mikoh4792]

And I'll say another thing: those with bad experiences with PETsMART or any other business. What did you do about it? I'm not asking for each person's story because I'm not the CEO, I don't care (lol). But just putting it out there: did you talk to management? Did the issue not get resolved? If not, how far did you take it?

I only these questions, because if you just gripe and moan this and that (that animal is not being cared for properly, or I had a bad customer experience, etc...whatever the heck it was), and you NEVER took it as far as you could go, then don't complain too much. I'm not saying that every time you do so, the situation may get resolved the way you want, but at least you can say you did all you could do. On the flip side, for example, if you think Bob's Snake Store is not caring for their BPs well, and you just walk out of the store and tell everyone not to shop there, and you never took the time to even speak to the management about your concerns, you're not being a part of the solution, and you certainly cannot expect Bob's Snake Store to change anything, if they do not know someone even had a problem.

I know these big chain stores are a greater hurdle to deal with, but they are not impossible. If you spoke to the Pet Care Manager, and still felt you weren't being heard, go over their head and contact the District Manager. Sooner or later, someone will hear you. I know because the store I worked for was one of the VERY first stores that started selling snakes, and I butted heads with my Store Director and Managers constantly over husbandry issues, often putting my own paycheck/job on the line. I often had meetings with our District Manager because of it so someone would hear me out.

Again, some stuff I still don't agree with how they do things, but no business is perfect. It takes a lot to run any business, and pet stores especially. Which is why I don't do it myself.


I have had conversations with petsmart and petco staff, they say that's just the way they are told to do things. But I don't see how this is relevant. Do I need to change the way chain pet stores do their business before I can tell someone " Hey I'd advise you to buy from somewhere else, and here's why"?

I've not seen one person on this thread gripe and moan. Let's not confuse dissent with griping and moaning. We're just saying people have better options.

[StudentoReptile]

I have had conversations with petsmart and petco staff, they say that's just the way they are told to do things. But I don't see how this is relevant. Do I need to change the way chain pet stores do their business before I can tell someone " Hey I'd advise you to buy from somewhere else, and here's why"?

No, but my post was in general terms for those who complain about (or pardon me, "do not agree with") how this or any other pet store does things. That is how it is relevant. I apologize you failed to see the relevance.

I've not seen one person on this thread gripe and moan. Let's not confuse dissent with griping and moaning. Please, get the idea that people are complaining out of your head. We're just saying people have better options.

Everytime someone puts PETsMART or Petco in the title of a thread, it is nearly always in a derogatory tone, and if not, the initial post implies as such. Whether deliberately or inadvertently, it sets the tone of "I disagree with this pet store > don't buy from them > all pet stores suck." Its the direction nearly every single one of these threads go (this one is no exception).

If there wasn't griping and moaning on this thread, there has been on others, and I never pointed out anyone specifically was griping or moaning; it was a lament at folks in general, so get off the high horse. I agree with your points; but I was just trying to offer a fresh (and possibly realistic?) perspective where I did not see one being presented.

I would apologize if people don't agree with me, but that's nothing for me to be sorry for, and I don't care anyway. I for one actually did learn a couple things from this thread, so at least one open mind is present, but I cannot speak for anyone else.

[reticsbydzine]

Does anyone think that by persmart selling a 300 snake for 500 would in some way be a good thing. Maybe it could raise prices back up on ball morphs or whatever snake they are selling..i think it possibly could..idk though

[Mikoh4792]

No, but my post was in general terms for those who complain about (or pardon me, "do not agree with") how this or any other pet store does things. That is how it is relevant. I apologize you failed to see the relevance.

But if no one is complaining, why would a post about people complaining be relevant?


I for one actually did learn a couple things from this thread, so at least one open mind is present, but I cannot speak for anyone else.

So is this supposed to be a cheeky way of calling someone closed minded? I would ask you to get off the high horse.

[reticsbydzine]

No, but my post was in general terms for those who complain about (or pardon me, "do not agree with") how this or any other pet store does things. That is how it is relevant. I apologize you failed to see the relevance.



Everytime someone puts PETsMART or Petco in the title of a thread, it is nearly always in a derogatory tone, and if not, the initial post implies as such. Whether deliberately or inadvertently, it sets the tone of "I disagree with this pet store > don't buy from them > all pet stores suck." Its the direction nearly every single one of these threads go (this one is no exception).

If there wasn't griping and moaning on this thread, there has been on others, and I never pointed out anyone specifically was griping or moaning; it was a lament at folks in general, so get off the high horse. I agree with your points; but I was just trying to offer a fresh (and possibly realistic?) perspective where I did not see one being presented.

I would apologize if people don't agree with me, but that's nothing for me to be sorry for, and I don't care anyway. I for one actually did learn a couple things from this thread, so at least one open mind is present, but I cannot speak for anyone else.

My original post was not negative..i buy alot of stuff from petsmart..the petsmart where i live i would recommend over our small pet store

[cwdiel]

There is an albino king snake for sale at the Petsmart in Matthews NC (close to where I live) but have never seen an albino ball for sale in any chain store like that. The price is outrageous!