How Many Mice Should Be Fed to a Ball Python?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Ok, so I was just told by someone that a full grown ball python should be fed one or two mice. This seems like underfeeding to me, as it takes about 8 mice for my 3.5ft ball python to get a bulge. I don't feed him mice now, but I used mice to try to get his appetite going before when he would give me trouble eating. Usually he would get 1-2 mice before I tried a rat again, and if he didn't take it within 3 days I would give him another 3-4 mice to make 6 total. The largest amount I gave him was 8 and he seemed content with that. The largest mice I've found around here are just a little bit bigger than his head full grown. This person claims they feed two mice to their 4ft ball python weekly. Am I right in thinking that this is underfeeding and that they're just pulling my leg, or am I wrong and was I feeding him too many mice? Could they be getting larger mice than me and we just didn't take that into account? Keep in mind my ball no longer gets mice and never will again if I can help it.

[dbank999]

I just fed my 2 and a half year old male Ball Python a jumbo rat (I meant to buy a large rat but someone switched them in the freezer at the store and I neglected to check packaging). But none the less, I was concerned with size once I took it out, but he handled it. I think one large meal is better than a couple smaller items.

But as to underfeeding, I would say that one to two mice weekly COULD be underfeeding for an adult Ball Python. Although, two large mice would be about one medium rat. Rats are a much better nutritional food source in any aspect.

Really all that matters is to monitor the weight of your snake, and to look for signs of starvation(weight loss, visible spine, triangular shape) or overfeeding(skin folds, puffy cheeks).

[bigsnakegirl785]

I didn't feed him the mice regularly, but I did feed mice to him 3 or 4 feedings in a row the last time he got mice before he accepted a rat. I'm not sure if that would be enough for him to put on a significant amount of weight or not, but I didn't notice any. He was about the same weight then as he is now ~1200 grams (1275 if I remember correctly, I'll need to get him on a scale again. I've been trying to leave him alone, but he is overdue for a weighing.) I believe he has gained weight since then, now that I think about it, but he's never been obese. Other than what I told you, I'm not sure about their ball. They didn't offer any info other than its size and "Her weight has always been healthy and sustained, perfect stool, perfect sheds, etc." Which doesn't tell me much. How big is your ball python? It must be quite a bit bigger than mine to be able to take a jumbo.

[dbank999]

Here is a picture of my second to last feeding (not the jumbo, but a large rat)

He got this one quite good LOL :laugh:


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/10929419635_59fc48df29_o.jpg
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/109073297@N03/10929419635/)
For length he is right around 3.5', never actually measured him.

[kwhitlock]

That's one "killed" rat..lol

[KORBIN5895]

I just fed my 2 and a half year old male Ball Python a jumbo rat (I meant to buy a large rat but someone switched them in the freezer at the store and I neglected to check packaging). But none the less, I was concerned with size once I took it out, but he handled it. I think one large meal is better than a couple smaller items.

But as to underfeeding, I would say that one to two mice weekly COULD be underfeeding for an adult Ball Python. Although, two large mice would be about one medium rat. Rats are a much better nutritional food source in any aspect.

Really all that matters is to monitor the weight of your snake, and to look for signs of starvation(weight loss, visible spine, triangular shape) or overfeeding(skin folds, puffy cheeks).

A medium rat is 75g-175g while an adult mouse is about 21g-30g so two adult mice fall way short of a medium.

[drumcrush]

My dad feeds his medium rats

[dbank999]

A medium rat is 75g-175g while an adult mouse is about 21g-30g so two adult mice fall way short of a medium.


Layne Labs lists the following:

Jumbo (adult?) Mouse...........30g-50g x 2 .....60g-100g

Medium Rat.........................100g-130g


I wouldn't say falls way short as you could technically end up with the same weight.

Rodent Pro lists their largest adult mice 25g-45g and medium rats at 85g-175g as a comparison.

Either way, I would agree and rephrase my previous statement to "that two adult/jumbo mice would be about the same as a small rat"

But I don't see why anyone would want to feed multiple meals over one solid good meal anyway. More work, more money, more problems.


http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-mice (http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-mice)
http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-rats (http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-rats)
**included the links to Layne Labs as they have a great chart system for comparing feeder sizes (from their facility of course).

[KORBIN5895]

Layne Labs lists the following:

Jumbo (adult?) Mouse...........30g-50g x 2 .....60g-100g

Medium Rat.........................100g-130g


I wouldn't say falls way short as you could technically end up with the same weight.

Rodent Pro lists their largest adult mice 25g-45g and medium rats at 85g-175g as a comparison.

Either way, I would agree and rephrase my previous statement to "that two adult/jumbo mice would be about the same as a small rat"

But I don't see why anyone would want to feed multiple meals over one solid good meal anyway. More work, more money, more problems.


http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-mice (http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-mice)
http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-rats (http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-rats)
**included the links to Layne Labs as they have a great chart system for comparing feeder sizes (from their facility of course).


Have you ever seen a 50g mouse? Neither have I and I have been selling rodents for over two years. An adult mouse is 21g-30g according to rp. That's your average size mouse. The biggest I have ever seen was 42g and it was huge.

[dbank999]

Have you ever seen a 50g mouse? Neither have I and I have been selling rodents for over two years. An adult mouse is 21g-30g according to rp. That's your average size mouse. The biggest I have ever seen was 42g and it was huge.

Nope never seen one.

Buy Feeder Mice - Newborn, Pinkies, Adult Mice Sale Online (http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp?prod=3&label=frozen_mice)

Here is the link to RP's website with the weights for large adult and extra large adult mice. Please source your "21g-30g" claim.

[KORBIN5895]

Nope never seen one.

Buy Feeder Mice - Newborn, Pinkies, Adult Mice Sale Online (http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp?prod=3&label=frozen_mice)

Here is the link to RP's website with the weights for large adult and extra large adult mice. Please source your "21g-30g" claim.

I'll just use your link since that is the standard I use for my feeders weight and say I wss wrong. A large adult mouse is only 18g-25g. So two large adult mice only weigh 50g tops which puts them barely into the smsl rat catagory ss small rats start at 45g. Thanks for helping me prove my point. Now I need to update the weights on my pricelist.

[lady_bug87]

My ball python used to get 1 350g rat every 4 weeks then I switched her to a 150g rat every 2 weeks. She's breeding this year and weighs (last I weighed her) 2380g

[dbank999]

I'll just use your link since that is the standard I use for my feeders weight and say I wss wrong. A large adult mouse is only 18g-25g. So two large adult mice only weigh 50g tops which puts them barely into the smsl rat catagory ss small rats start at 45g. Thanks for helping me prove my point. Now I need to update the weights on my pricelist.

Right...

Well you realize you stated "An adult mouse is 21g-30g according to rp."

Not "according to KORBIN5895's standards on feeders weight".

Anyway, this doesn't pertain to the OP's original question really...

[KORBIN5895]

Right...

Well you realize you stated "An adult mouse is 21g-30g according to rp."

Not "according to KORBIN5895's standards on feeders weight".

Anyway, this doesn't pertain to the OP's original question really...

You realize that the link you used to back your statement actually proved you wrong? Imagine that.... I really like how you try and make a point, prove yourself wrong and then brush it off as not pertinent to the op. Bad db ( obviously the ank isn't necessary) for giving bad info.

[LadyWraith]

My 1.5 year old, 1200 gram male is eating medium rats... I can't imagine trying fill him up on mice O.o I don't know about other people's BPs, but mine is pretty der-de-der when it comes to eating. He has to search a long time to find the head... I'd be up all night feeding him if I were doing multiple prey items.

[Chris72]

SnakeGirl...

Consider feeding according to rodent weight rather than category.

I think your animal is nearly 1300g right? Everyone is a little different..I would feed that animal nothing less than a 120g rodent every week. More if it was a female, and especially this time of year. (Yours is a male I believe)

Size categories vary by supplier, and even from bag to bag. My guy tried to keep mediums at 145(ish) to 175. I have picked up 200 mediums in an order with rodents as low as 130g and the biggest was almost 200g.

That said - I know if I go anywhere else the range will be different unless discussed.

....Just sayin'....know what you are offering.

[dbank999]

You realize that the link you used to back your statement actually proved you wrong? Imagine that.... I really like how you try and make a point, prove yourself wrong and then brush it off as not pertinent to the op. Bad db ( obviously the ank isn't necessary) for giving bad info.

How did I prove myself wrong? Pretty sure I corrected my statement and in no way stated that what was on the web page proved my original point.

WHAT I did was call you out on being wrong about what you stated RP claimed as their adult mice size. All you had to do was answer that for me, maybe rodent pro has a different chart I didn't notice maybe ?

[KORBIN5895]

How did I prove myself wrong? Pretty sure I corrected my statement and in no way stated that what was on the web page proved my original point.

WHAT I did was call you out on being wrong about what you stated RP claimed as their adult mice size. All you had to do was answer that for me, maybe rodent pro has a different chart I didn't notice maybe ?



Here is where you proved yourself wrong, you claimed two adult mice would be equivalent to a medium rat. Well two large mice would be 50g according to rp while a medium rat is 75g on the small side and 175g on the large side. If you do theath it would take 3 to 7 large mice to make a medium rat. Do you get the difference now? Maybe they don't teach math theee in Massachusetts. Anyway to sum it all up for you you werw weong, you posted a link that proved it and now your and very butt hurt.

Also I have already furthered my genetic line an my sic uear old is a borderline genius. Maube I will send him over to your place to teach you some math and reading skills.

[dbank999]

Oh poor muffin is angry....

Here is where you proved yourself wrong, you claimed two adult mice would be equivalent to a medium rat. Well two large mice would be 50g according to rp while a medium rat is 75g on the small side and 175g on the large side. If you do theath it would take 3 to 7 large mice to make a medium rat. Do you get the difference now? Maybe they don't teach math theee in Massachusetts. Anyway to sum it all up for you you werw weong, you posted a link that proved it and now your and very butt hurt.

Also I have already furthered my genetic line an my sic uear old is a borderline genius. Maube I will send him over to your place to teach you some math and reading skills.

I said, "two adult mice would be ABOUT a medium rat" and then after you stated weights, I changed my statement. I also said adult, not large, not small, not jumbo. The thing is that I changed my estimate on size comparison between the species when you brought forth your information, I then questioned your information from rodent pro and you seemingly took it as an insult towards your (unknown to me) rodent breeding expertise that's currently exists. I was not, and am still not, arguing with you how to create an equivalent weight of multiple mice to one rat.

Thanks for questioning my math though. I have a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering, and now make a pretty penny a year dealing commercial and military aircraft engine manufacturing. No math involved there!

You also clearly can't see how desperate you seem to be called "right".. And I am done with this.

[KORBIN5895]

I said, "two adult mice would be ABOUT a medium rat" and then after you stated weights, I changed my statement. I also said adult, not large, not small, not jumbo. The thing is that I changed my estimate on size comparison between the species when you brought forth your information, I then questioned your information from rodent pro and you seemingly took it as an insult towards your (unknown to me) rodent breeding expertise that's currently exists. I was not, and am still not, arguing with you how to create an equivalent weight of multiple mice to one rat.

Thanks for questioning my math though. I have a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering, and now make a pretty penny a year dealing commercial and military aircraft engine manufacturing. No math involved there!

You also clearly can't see how desperate you seem to be called "right".. And I am done with this.

How can you poddibly keep your job when you think something that is a 1/3 smaller is about the same..... definitely sounds like s government job.

Also my soze chart is from when I standardized my sizes with rp two years ago.

[bigsnakegirl785]

SnakeGirl...

Consider feeding according to rodent weight rather than category.

I think your animal is nearly 1300g right? Everyone is a little different..I would feed that animal nothing less than a 120g rodent every week. More if it was a female, and especially this time of year. (Yours is a male I believe)

Size categories vary by supplier, and even from bag to bag. My guy tried to keep mediums at 145(ish) to 175. I have picked up 200 mediums in an order with rodents as low as 130g and the biggest was almost 200g.

That said - I know if I go anywhere else the range will be different unless discussed.

....Just sayin'....know what you are offering.

That's how I feed my boa, and next time I get some rats I was going to start my ball on it, too. Last I measured Bud he was 1275 grams I believe (2lb 13oz). He's due to be weighed again, though. I have weighed his rats, but I'll weigh the ones I got since then and see how their weight compares. He's offered a rat weekly, but he only takes a rat every 2 weeks or once a month and he's been eating like that for awhile. He's starting to get better now, and he's eating every 2 weeks more often than he is every month instead. He ate a little over a week ago, but refused his meal this time so I'll try again next week. He hasn't lost any weight over this time, so I'm not worried yet, but I've already discussed it with my vet and he's ready for me to bring him in if he does start losing weight.

Bud's gender is completely unknown to me, I am only assuming he is a male.

Either way, my question was only asking if it was possible that they could be underfeeding their 4ft ball python by feeding only 2 mice weekly, or if I was overfeeding by feeding 6+ mice to a 3.5ft ball python.

[robertjnovak59]

I usually feed my ball a medium rat, when Im short rats I'll feed him mice. He usually stops around 6 or 7 mice. I don't think you're overfeeding.

[Chris72]

That's how I feed my boa, and next time I get some rats I was going to start my ball on it, too. Last I measured Bud he was 1275 grams I believe (2lb 13oz). He's due to be weighed again, though. I have weighed his rats, but I'll weigh the ones I got since then and see how their weight compares. He's offered a rat weekly, but he only takes a rat every 2 weeks or once a month and he's been eating like that for awhile. He's starting to get better now, and he's eating every 2 weeks more often than he is every month instead. He ate a little over a week ago, but refused his meal this time so I'll try again next week. He hasn't lost any weight over this time, so I'm not worried yet, but I've already discussed it with my vet and he's ready for me to bring him in if he does start losing weight.

Bud's gender is completely unknown to me, I am only assuming he is a male.

Either way, my question was only asking if it was possible that they could be underfeeding their 4ft ball python by feeding only 2 mice weekly, or if I was overfeeding by feeding 6+ mice to a 3.5ft ball python.


Ok great.

No need to be taking your animal to the vet if he's off food for a few weeks. At nearly 1300g I wouldn't even blink if he (she?) was off food for four months or more. An animal that size would only drop a little in four months.

A friend had a large female go off food for nearly two years once....then just start back up again.

[dbank999]

That's how I feed my boa, and next time I get some rats I was going to start my ball on it, too. Last I measured Bud he was 1275 grams I believe (2lb 13oz). He's due to be weighed again, though. I have weighed his rats, but I'll weigh the ones I got since then and see how their weight compares. He's offered a rat weekly, but he only takes a rat every 2 weeks or once a month and he's been eating like that for awhile. He's starting to get better now, and he's eating every 2 weeks more often than he is every month instead. He ate a little over a week ago, but refused his meal this time so I'll try again next week. He hasn't lost any weight over this time, so I'm not worried yet, but I've already discussed it with my vet and he's ready for me to bring him in if he does start losing weight.

Bud's gender is completely unknown to me, I am only assuming he is a male.

Either way, my question was only asking if it was possible that they could be underfeeding their 4ft ball python by feeding only 2 mice weekly, or if I was overfeeding by feeding 6+ mice to a 3.5ft ball python.

My apologies for the thread getting thrown off topic, I did not mean for my poor comparison to disrupt you seeking information.

[rocknhorse76]

My 2060g male BP eats a large rat every 2-3 weeks. He's 7 years old and almost 4 1/2 feet.

[Terranaut]

So in the end as the smoke clears the answer to the originak question was 0 ;)


Seriously just go the rat route at the size everyone else said. I will add tgis.....you may have a mouse to rat switch hunger strike when you try to switch the snake over. Persevere and wait the snake out. There are a few threads here about peoples experiences with the change over. Good luck.

[rocknhorse76]

^ Exactly!^

[bigsnakegirl785]

Ok, so I take I was right. lol A bit roundabout, but from what I can tell 2 mice is far too few mice for a 4ft ball python.

I think I may need to clear up a few misconceptions as well. I do not feed Bud mice, only rats. When I fed mice it was only to stimulate appetite and I no longer do it. I had no problems switching from mice to rats, and the only switching I've done is recently switching him from live to f/t.

[MizCandice]

I would venture to guess that YES the snake was being underfed. I also second the notion that its easier, more cost effective and less time consuming to feed an appropriate sized meal as apposed to lotsa small ones, though for some reasons( ill snake, freshly hatched, feeding trouble) it can be necessary in the short term. You have received some sound advice above and Ill add that if weighing the meal isn't an option you can eye ball the rat .. It should be 1-1.5 times the girth of the largest part of the snakes body. ( You probably know most of this as you seemed to be asking about another snake/post it may be beneficial for those people less familiar with proper sizing.) You also want to make sure the snake has dedicated before offering it a second meal if it will be shortly after the first IMHO.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I would venture to guess that YES the snake was being underfed. I also second the notion that its easier, more cost effective and less time consuming to feed an appropriate sized meal as apposed to lotsa small ones, though for some reasons( ill snake, freshly hatched, feeding trouble) it can be necessary in the short term. You have received some sound advice above and Ill add that if weighing the meal isn't an option you can eye ball the rat .. It should be 1-1.5 times the girth of the largest part of the snakes body. ( You probably know most of this as you seemed to be asking about another snake/post it may be beneficial for those people less familiar with proper sizing.) You also want to make sure the snake has dedicated before offering it a second meal if it will be shortly after the first IMHO.

Yes, I did bring up those other points with them as well, but they were absolutely convinced that their method was correct. I'm now convinced that if their bp was indeed of a good weight that they were either lying about how they fed it or it was thinner than what they thought. They never provided a photo, however, so I couldn't tell you. Our conversation has long ended, but I will make sure to use some of the points brought up in this thread next time that someone does something similar, or just linking them here. I do use the weight method, and it's much easier to determine since buying an electric scale a month or two ago.

[vjdragonfly]

The way I have been told is to only feed your snake about the size of the largest part of it's body. I have been a little slow at bumping mine up, but he is healthy.
http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt322/vjdragonfly/Leviathan_zps5a8e56b8.jpg I have been feeding him a small rat for about 4 weeks now. Before I was giving him 2 x-breeders per week. He is a very voracious eater though, so doing 2 was no problem.