Can someone help .

[Tracy33]

In the matter of hours , my CP neck or jaw has really swollen up bad . I don't think the photos show it so well . The swelling is like in two lumps , and they are uneven . I have looked inside his mouth , and it seems swollen each side of the mouth . I have never seen this before , he is 16 this month , can anyone help .

[Tracy33]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y481/3tracy/DSCF0751_zps03b206ef.jpg

[Tracy33]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y481/3tracy/DSCF0750_zpsda761339.jpg

[Tracy33]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y481/3tracy/DSCF0749_zps07940d1e.jpg

[formica]

woah thats a swelling an a half, Vet is definitely needed - my first thought is Thyroid problem, but you really need a vet to diagnose asap

If you have any iodine tablets designed for reptiles, that is an option in the mean time, but it may not be thyroid related, i'm not a vet!

[sharthun]

woah thats a swelling an a half, Vet is definitely needed - my first thought is Thyroid problem, but you really need a vet to diagnose asap

If you have any iodine tablets designed for reptiles, that is an option in the mean time, but it may not be thyroid related, i'm not a vet!

+1 vet right away!

[Starbuck]

Vet. I wouldn't administer any kind of iodine tablets. There are lots of structures under the jaw, and lots of potential causes for swelling. Lymph nodes, salivary glands, etc etc, abscess, cellulitis, traumatic edema. ... get it to a vet. We can't help you via internet/pictures.
Best of luck please keep us updated!

[formica]

Vet. I wouldn't administer any kind of iodine tablets. There are lots of structures under the jaw, and lots of potential causes for swelling. Lymph nodes, salivary glands, etc etc, abscess, cellulitis, traumatic edema. ... get it to a vet. We can't help you via internet/pictures.
Best of luck please keep us updated!

snakes dont have lymph nodes, but yes, here are many things it could be! I'm not even sure that the thyroid is that close to a snakes head tbh, having checked some anatomy pics its further down by the heart

[Starbuck]

You learn something new every day I guess. They still have lymphatic systems and ducts, just not localized into glands as in mammals. I would be skeptical of a thyroid issue arising so suddenly.

[MDT]

Something that rapid could be infectious (abscess)...the bad thing is that a parapharyngeal abscess (or any progressive swelling from whatever source for that matter) can cause rapid airway compression. Not good. The position of the trachea in snakes may give a bit of advantage, but, yeah....take to vet ASAP. Let us know what you find out and best of luck.

[Tracy33]

Hi guys , thanks so much for your replies . After I posted this , I had to wait a few hours for the opening hours at the vet . When I got him to the local vet , the swelling was not so balloon like . The vet asked me when he last eat , I said a few weeks ago . I said the only thing I could think of that was different , was the fact he's been going in his water tank lately , he has never bothered before . So a swab was taken , and I have got to put some probiotics in his water every day . The vet wants me to feed him tomorrow , to see how he reacts ( what do you think? ) I am to phone and let them know how the feed went . So far the swelling is not so bad , but it is soft when you touch it , and he doesn't seem to mind . If it gets worse , the local vet will get in touch with a specialist vet . So sorry I am none the wiser just now , but I will keep you posted .

[Terranaut]

I think yoir swabs will come back to show a bacterial infection of some sort. Throat rot. It happens and is treatable. Hopefully not an injury.

[Starbuck]

in line with what MDT suggested about the airway instruction, i would feed something on the smaller end of what he is eating (if he eats med rats, feed a med rat on the lighter end of the spectrum). What does the vet think observing him eat will accomplish?


in cows (sorry lol, idk about snakes), swelling and edema under the jaw can indicate heart issues. Did the vet listen to your snakes heart using a doppler, and observe his repsirations? It can be difficult in snakes, but you should sit quietly in the room where his viv is and see if you can get a respiration count while he is calm (not being handled, bothered, etc), or if his breathing seems labored etc

[Starbuck]

In reptiles, abscesses are TYPICALLY (not always) very caseous, hard masses. OP described the swelling as soft and fluid-like?

Did the vet take a needle aspirate in order to test the mass, or was it simply a swab of the oral cavity? If just swabbed the mouth, of course i wouldnt be surprised if it comes back as bacterial, but that is unlikely to tell you anything about the lump itself...
Best of luck, glad you were able to get him into a vet.

Keep taking photos daily/as you notice a change, it will be good to document any changes in the lump.

[Tracy33]

Thanks for all your help . I will feed him tonight , the thing is though , I have just checked the inside of his mouth , and his throat is black , each side is swollen (inside) . Outside the swelling has gone down , although you can feel two smaller lumps . I have just phoned the vets .

[Starbuck]

Yeah that doesn't sound good :-/ are you taking him to a specializedrwptile vet...?

[formica]

Thanks for all your help . I will feed him tonight , the thing is though , I have just checked the inside of his mouth , and his throat is black , each side is swollen (inside) . Outside the swelling has gone down , although you can feel two smaller lumps . I have just phoned the vets .

i think you really need to find a specialist today and get him seen, dont wait around for your vet to find one

try here for a start:

ReptileVets.co.uk - Find Local Reptile Vets (http://www.reptilevets.co.uk/reptile-vets/county)

at the very least the vets listed will be able to give you the contact details of someone more local if they are too far

[Chris72]

I think yoir swabs will come back to show a bacterial infection of some sort. Throat rot. It happens and is treatable. Hopefully not an injury.


^^ Thats what I was thinking also.

I’m curious as to what the vet said the thinking was behind the pro-biotics in the water? (pro-biotics are typically to improve gut flora after tremendous stress, administration of antibiotics, etc. to aid with digestion issues) Clearly not a digestion issue but you can hurt him with pro-biotics.

[Tracy33]

Thanks Formica for the vet links . I have just phoned the vets again , the vet will call me back . I want them to get in touch with the specialist vet , as she said she would if need be . I don't know what to do , should I still feed him the rat tonight , as asked , you know with his mouth being black . He seems ok , and calm .

[Donnie]

Thanks Formica for the vet links . I have just phoned the vets again , the vet will call me back . I want them to get in touch with the specialist vet , as she said she would if need be . I don't know what to do , should I still feed him the rat tonight , as asked , you know with his mouth being black . He seems ok , and calm .

Personally I wouldn't feed until the specialist vet had called back. I hope all goes well for you both.

[formica]

I cant for the life of me work out why the vet would suggest feeding at this point - but i'm not a vet, i'm not qualified to answer your question, but I agree with Donnie, I personally would be inclined to wait until I had spoken to a specialist, or at least having spoken to the vet again, perhaps to find out why they suggested feeding, there may be a good reason for it that we couldnt hope to guess at


fingers crossed this is all resolved quickly for you and your snake :)

[Tracy33]

Thanks .
Well they asked me to feed him , to see how he will react , that I am to watch him , to see if there is a problem when he takes it , or if he can not take it .
Ok , just got of the phone , they said hold of the feed , they will contact the specialist vet , and will call me tomorrow .

[Tracy33]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y481/3tracy/DSCF0755_zps552f8f95.jpg

[Tracy33]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y481/3tracy/DSCF0754_zps9a038817.jpg

[Chris72]

........
Clearly not a digestion issue but you can hurt him with pro-biotics.

Sorry...that should have been...you CAN'T hurt him with pro-biotics.

(Little keys, big sausage fingers, auto-correct, etc.)





I would say dont feed him tonight...!

A snake that size would be just fine without food for months so you are not going to hurt him at all by missing a meal or two. Since you dont yet know what is going on; you could cause him harm having him do what he does to put a rat away. Also if he does have an infection you are better off (vet speciality visit pending) letting him conserve his energy and sit still.



.

[Tracy33]

Thanks chris , I have called of the feed .
will let you all know what happens tomorrow .
Thanks all , for your feed back .

[marvelfreak]

In the matter of hours , my CP neck or jaw has really swollen up bad . I don't think the photos show it so well . The swelling is like in two lumps , and they are uneven . I have looked inside his mouth , and it seems swollen each side of the mouth . I have never seen this before , he is 16 this month , can anyone help .
16 months or years?

[Terranaut]

Years. I have seen this beauty on here before. She posts all the cool garden shots.

I hope this works out for you.

[marvelfreak]

Years! Wow i tip my hat to you Tracy. I always love see people who have older snakes it always good to see people who are dedicated to there reptiles. So many get them keep less than a few year and get rid of them for the next cool thing. I have a Jungle that's almost 12 years old. I hope everything work out for you and your beautiful Coastal.

[Tracy33]

Thank you both Terranaut and marvelfreak , I hope it works out for this big guy too .

[Tracy33]

Thought I would give you an update .
The local vet called me today , and told me that the specialist vet had taken a look at the photo's I had emailed , and said that they could not match it with anything . They said that a python's mouth is normally blackish (is that right?) , that the paleness will show that up . I have been told to feed him and video him , and send them that . This will tell them a lot , they said , if he takes it or not etc .
If it gets worse or he cannot feed , the local vet will refer me to the specialist vet , where he will under go a blood test , x-ray and so on , which will cost for start £500 .

[Terranaut]

Kudos to you for doing the right thing.


Edit. After I wrote this I thought "I'm an idiot...I have carpets...go look stupid " so I didn't have 3 hands for a pic but Mick has a purple throat. Not as black as yours but the colour change from pinkish to dark plum is in the same location as your photos. If I had to guess yours is inflamed and just more prevelent but infact dark where it should be dark. I hope this helps.

[Starbuck]

I know that my honduran milk snake has some pigmentation in tlher throat and glottis which is normal (observed at the vet during an xray), but I DONT have a carpet, so can't help you there. Maybe someone with an Adult carpet could comment/take a peek?
Weird :-/

[Terranaut]

Lol. Got it ;)

[marvelfreak]

Kudos to you for doing the right thing.


Edit. After I wrote this I thought "I'm an idiot...I have carpets...go look stupid " so I didn't have 3 hands for a pic but Mick has a purple throat. Not as black as yours but the colour change from pinkish to dark plum is in the same location as your photos. If I had to guess yours is inflamed and just more prevelent but infact dark where it should be dark. I hope this helps.
I have noticed it before on my big Jungle and Diamond x Jungle.

[Tracy33]

Well I thought the same thing last night , that I would ask any of you guys with carpets to have a peak . That is a big help Terranaut , to know that there is a same dark area . Thanks all of you for your info . Its funny though , the amount of times I have seen him stretch his jaws in front of me , I always thought I saw his mouth as a pale pink , and as micks mouth is with the darker part in the throat , that the pink means healthy .

[Derek Roddy]

Tracy, your boy's mouth looks perfectly normal.

I don't know why it happens but, I've had a few older carpets show this before. Only for a few days then it goes away. Don't know what it from but, it has never "hurt" any of my animals before.
One thought I had is that the glands in the lower throat get "flooded" from handling shortly after drinking (This is because I've only ever seen it after a handling session or when the snakes head is pointed down for an extended amount of time.)

Don't know....they can't talk! Haha.

D

[smy_749]

Swollen lymph-nodes. He probably got mono from kissing another carpet.

[Terranaut]

Tracy, your boy's mouth looks perfectly normal.

I don't know why it happens but, I've had a few older carpets show this before. Only for a few days then it goes away. Don't know what it from but, it has never "hurt" any of my animals before.
One thought I had is that the glands in the lower throat get "flooded" from handling shortly after drinking (This is because I've only ever seen it after a handling session or when the snakes head is pointed down for an extended amount of time.)

Don't know....they can't talk! Haha.

D
Great info Derek!!

[shaunyboy]

Thought I would give you an update .
The local vet called me today , and told me that the specialist vet had taken a look at the photo's I had emailed , and said that they could not match it with anything . They said that a python's mouth is normally blackish (is that right?) , that the paleness will show that up . I have been told to feed him and video him , and send them that . This will tell them a lot , they said , if he takes it or not etc .
If it gets worse or he cannot feed , the local vet will refer me to the specialist vet , where he will under go a blood test , x-ray and so on , which will cost for start £500 .

as has been said,your carpets mouth looks 100% normal pal

to be honest the vets your using don't seem too read up on reptiles...

imo theres a lack of good reptile vets in Scotland.....

i travel from Kelty all the way to Falkirk to use the Lawrie Vetenary Practice,but its only old Mr Lawrie himself i see,as he is the most qualified to work with reptiles

the only other 2 good reptile vets i have used are sadly unavailable these days,as Romain Pizza has now taken a full time job at Edinburgh Zoo,and Simon Girling of Perth has retired

for now i would just keep an eye on your Carpet and not go down the expensive route your vets suggesting

imo a biopsy or maybe even an ultrasound may shed some light on whats going on if it continues to get worse

please let us know how it goes

cheers shaun

[Tracy33]

Yea your right , great info Derek , it makes sense . He was hanging out on his ladder (in viv) , when the first swelling came up in the matter of hours on Tuesday , and before that he had been hanging out in his water tank . Which I have to say , is a new thing .
Quite agree about the vets Shaun . I live in the Borders , so I would have to go up to Edinburgh . I am keeping a very close eye on him . I am going to feed him a rat tomorrow or Sunday , and the vets want a video or some shots of this .

[Tracy33]

Hi everyone , Ya know , I think my CP is going to be alright . Today he was very bright and real active , he was flicking his tongue , and moving around the floors . He even did his no. 2s . I think he is ready for his rat tomorrow . To look at him you wouldn't know that he had that swelling at all . I think maybe Derek was right.
I just wanted to thank all you guys on here for your great help and feed back , I feel I got much more info here than ever the vets . It was a real worry , only my carpet has never been ill in 16 years , You helped me through . :)
I will just keep a close eye on him , here on in .