View Full Version : New here, what kind of boa is she?
SuperSleuth
07-27-13, 06:30 PM
My husband and I have owned redtails, ball pythons and burms before but that was ten or so years ago. We picked up this beautiful girl yesterday and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what kind of redtail she was specifically? It doesn't really matter but I'd love to know.
My husband and I have owned redtails, ball pythons and burms before but that was ten or so years ago. We picked up this beautiful girl yesterday and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what kind of redtail she was specifically? It doesn't really matter but I'd love to know.
I would say she is a sharp very pretty too
poison123
07-28-13, 09:12 AM
She is an albino (or some type of albino) boa constrictor imperator. More then likely a columbian boa.
SuperSleuth
07-28-13, 09:33 AM
Thank you for the opinions. We got her from a friend who's landlord found out about her. All I know is that the parents are an albino and a sunglow. I don't know much about the morphs and such, my husband and I just had them to have them. I just wanted to make sure that she didn't have any specific needs that needed to be met.
Thank you for the opinions. We got her from a friend who's landlord found out about her. All I know is that the parents are an albino and a sunglow. I don't know much about the morphs and such, my husband and I just had them to have them. I just wanted to make sure that she didn't have any specific needs that needed to be met.
I have never seen a sunglow in person but she could be her colors are strong
Terranaut
08-01-13, 11:39 AM
kahl albino
Just curious what cues you used for this?
I was going to say sunglow but can't see how you would tell kahl from sharp. I had to call the breeder in Arizona to find out my girl is a sharp sunglow.
Please explain as I would honestly like to know.
Concept9
08-01-13, 12:08 PM
I would have guessed Sharp Albino.
Sharp albinos have block/messy like saddles, that fade to white as they age. While kahls tend to have cleaner saddle and they yellow out and the contrast fades with age.
Also kahl is the original albino, the very first one to hit the scene 9 times outta 10 if they say albino its kahl as that's the base line
KORBIN5895
08-01-13, 02:50 PM
kahl albino
Look at the eye again.
Also you would be the first person I have ever heard of that was able tell a kahl from a sharp visually.
Aaron_S
08-01-13, 02:55 PM
Thank you for the opinions. We got her from a friend who's landlord found out about her. All I know is that the parents are an albino and a sunglow. I don't know much about the morphs and such, my husband and I just had them to have them. I just wanted to make sure that she didn't have any specific needs that needed to be met.
Yes, she has specific needs.
No towels as substrate.
A reptile specific enclosure would be more ideal than the aquarium.
DeadlyDesires
08-01-13, 03:49 PM
Yes, she has specific needs.
No towels as substrate.
A reptile specific enclosure would be more ideal than the aquarium.
just curious, i probably wouldn't use them, but what harmful effects can come with using a towel?
lady_bug87
08-01-13, 03:51 PM
My coral albino looked like that as a neonate...
lady_bug87
08-01-13, 03:51 PM
just curious, i probably wouldn't use them, but what harmful effects can come with using a towel?
The animal can get tangled or get snagged
Aaron_S
08-01-13, 03:54 PM
just curious, i probably wouldn't use them, but what harmful effects can come with using a towel?
It's gross.
It doesn't hold humidity.
Snakes have swallowed towels.
Also what she said... ^^^^^
again its easiest to tell into adult hood. A lot of people feel they can tell, wont even know about rightness without age and breeding lol But with just them saying "albino" "sunglow" parents its a kahl if it was a sharp it would be very worth mentioning. The kahl albino is the original line.
but here are some good examples of what I was talking about, without the hypo gene these are strictly albinos. The hypo gene adds some solidness to a sharps pattern.
adult kahls
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/kahl1_zpsa8249c26.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cpblsoup/media/kahl1_zpsa8249c26.jpg.html)
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/kahl2_zpsf3772d4d.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cpblsoup/media/kahl2_zpsf3772d4d.jpg.html)
a nice neo kahl
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/kahl3_zps067bfc1f.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cpblsoup/media/kahl3_zps067bfc1f.jpg.html)
some adult sharps
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/sharp2_zps183777ce.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cpblsoup/media/sharp2_zps183777ce.jpg.html)
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/sharp1_zpsfeab7164.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cpblsoup/media/sharp1_zpsfeab7164.jpg.html)
a neo sharp
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/sharp3_zps380dbb48.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cpblsoup/media/sharp3_zps380dbb48.jpg.html)
Im a sharps person personally :D I can talk genetics and morphs all day everyday for boas anyway ;)
DeadlyDesires
08-01-13, 05:10 PM
It's gross.
It doesn't hold humidity.
Snakes have swallowed towels.
Also what she said... ^^^^^
makes sense. my first thought was it would get kinda nasty.
NagyReptiles
08-01-13, 07:24 PM
It's an Albino B.c.i. for sure I don't see Sunglow at all and the odds are if it didn't come as a Sharp it's Kahl as the are the most common strain of Albino. Do you know who produced the boa? They should know what strain of albanism it is, but if you have no plans of breeding it doesn't really matter.
SuperSleuth
08-01-13, 11:16 PM
No plans on breeding. We used a towel the first night because it was too late to go out and get a good substrate. My husband will be building a better top for the tank tomorrow because it isn't holding humidity well.
SuperSleuth
08-01-13, 11:25 PM
Also she hides under the substrate a lot. Is that normal? I don't remember any of my past reptiles doing that before. If she's not under the substrate, she's curled up on a limb sometimes balled up in a corner.
Boas are shy, most reptiles are. The like to be in unoticed hiding spots. With your babe being in a glass tank id definitely put some hides in there. You wont see it much, they are really active at night. Kinda neat to watch
Terranaut
08-02-13, 04:12 AM
I am amazed at the amount of yellow in adult pics above.
KORBIN5895
08-02-13, 05:59 AM
I am amazed at the amount of yellow in adult pics above.
They were cherry picked to try and prove a point.
Anyone claiming to be able to tell a kahl from a sharp is really deceiving themselves and others. I have seen many sharps that were just as washed out as that kahl.
Again check the eyes.
Anybody claiming to tell a morph by its eye color seem a bit more crazy and simply hysterical then claiming to pick a morph out by its pattern or/and color!! Please teach us more :D
i own several kahl animals and several sharp animals there is a drastic diffrence in well bred examples.more so in sub adults/adults I gave her my opinion as asked. How about you quit trying to start something, and go back to harrasing KO Kevin!! I think its a kahl every animals eyes differ from each other. The end!
KORBIN5895
08-02-13, 04:49 PM
Anybody claiming to tell a morph by its eye color seem a bit more crazy and simply hysterical then claiming to pick a morph out by its pattern or/and color!! Please teach us more :D
i own several kahl animals and several sharp animals there is a drastic diffrence in well bred examples.more so in sub adults/adults I gave her my opinion as asked. How about you quit trying to start something, and go back to harrasing KO Kevin!! I think its a kahl every animals eyes differ from each other. The end!
Aren't you the one that usually pisses Kristen off? Nice try Jendee but apparently you didn't read the whole fb thread .... or you think Hitler was a great guy like she does.
All of the albino morphs have eye variations. An albinos eyes are different from a sunglows and both are different from a moonglow. I assumed you knew this bit I guess I was wrong.
Aaron_S
08-02-13, 04:50 PM
Anybody claiming to tell a morph by its eye color seem a bit more crazy and simply hysterical then claiming to pick a morph out by its pattern or/and color!! Please teach us more :D...
I'm not sure how it works in the boa world but eye characteristics are a common trait looked for in ball pythons.
It certainly isn't the end all be all but it isn't as hysterical for everything as you say it is.
Here's a thread where the eye is the "tell" for a new mutation.
What do you guys think of this? (http://www.reptileradio.net/ball-python-pictures/47106-what-do-you-guys-think.html)
ill be more specific
Theres simply nothing her to argue over but an albino vrs sharp vrs sunglow are all the same eyeball. Different variations yes nothing that is a morph characteristic. I personally find it rather funny.
KO told everyone about you, Ill use a filter for those specifics
Again imo you have a kahl never claimed to be 100 on it but thats what I would say is pictured
KORBIN5895
08-02-13, 05:42 PM
ill be more specific
Theres simply nothing her to argue over but an albino vrs sharp vrs sunglow are all the same eyeball. Different variations yes nothing that is a morph characteristic. I personally find it rather funny.
KO told everyone about you, Ill use a filter for those specifics
Again imo you have a kahl never claimed to be 100 on it but thats what I would say is pictured
Lol. I am going to ask her what all she told. Do you mean I told her that it was sad that she has the Third Reich flag hanging in her home? Or that she was intentionally looking to story things up and claimed she wanted a debate but when I approached her calm and with facts and questions she ignored me?
Jendee I am not sure what your problem is but if you want to drag fb here fine but start using lies. You have just fallen several notches in my book. No wonder no one take you seriously.
KORBIN5895
08-02-13, 05:52 PM
I just posted that question to Kristen's wall and I will update you on her reply.
No about the nude pics day in and day out. I just answered the ops question now its a pissing match. Oh joy!! Ive sold all my babies. For not being taken seriously your still peddling last seasons kiddos!! At least we can agree on one thing, Ko lol can we stop this drama. Id rather be dicussing boas and trying to help when i can, this is just a who knows more thing. Just like i got into with aaron months back lesson learned dont wanna be childish again...im moving on thanks!
KORBIN5895
08-02-13, 06:12 PM
No about the nude pics day in and day out. I just answered the ops question now its a pissing match. Oh joy!! Ive sold all my babies. For not being taken seriously your still peddling last seasons kiddos!! At least we can agree on one thing, Ko lol can we stop this drama. Id rather be dicussing boas and trying to help when i can, this is just a whos no more thing. Just like i got into with aaron months back lesson learned dont wanna be childish again...im moving on thanks!
Could you point out what stock I have left over from last year? If you ate referring to the aby ghost jungles then you are way off as they aren't even mine. I'm selling for a guy that I have a couple of breeding projects with. As matter of fact I pretty clear on that in my ads.
I sold all of last years stock back in September and the litter I bought this year I sold all of them within a week.
I would recommend that you get off the bottle before you start posting on the internet because it is clouding your judgement.
Oh a flipper...even better!! :)
oh yes Kevin, Im totally wasted, prefect typing and all!! I can drive awesome when inebriated too :P
Please!!
Mikoh4792
08-02-13, 06:26 PM
KORBIN5895
Jendee
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/531864/popcorn-o.gif
KORBIN5895
08-02-13, 06:44 PM
Oh a flipper...even better!! :)
!!
I sure am.
I buy my litters from well known and trusted sources and back the animal 100%. Hell I even gave a girl another corn snake when Hers escaped.... after I helped her fix her set up.
I'm okay with how I make my money nor do I hide the fact. That is how I build my collection and pay bills. I am a business man and I haven't had a loss in two years. As far as my collection goes I have lesa than $600 of out of pocket cash in it. Can you say the same about your first two years?
SuperSleuth
08-02-13, 11:22 PM
Thanks for the fun drama guys. I never expected this to blow up or become an argument, sorry to anyone who thinks so. I'm assuming she's an albino and not a sunglow right? She's small, maybe a couple of months old, so I figured the orange would fade away completely. Unfortunately my husband's dumb friend had only had her a few days before his landlord found out about her. His loss, our gain. She's pretty feisty and we haven't handled her too much because we wanted her to get used to her new surroundings. She hasn't struck, just been really jumpy when we open her tank for maintenance or to pull her out and feed her.
Cmwells90
08-02-13, 11:38 PM
Thanks for the fun drama guys. I never expected this to blow up or become an argument, sorry to anyone who thinks so. I'm assuming she's an albino and not a sunglow right? She's small, maybe a couple of months old, so I figured the orange would fade away completely. Unfortunately my husband's dumb friend had only had her a few days before his landlord found out about her. His loss, our gain. She's pretty feisty and we haven't handled her too much because we wanted her to get used to her new surroundings. She hasn't struck, just been really jumpy when we open her tank for maintenance or to pull her out and feed her.
Glad to hear you got her, she's Beautiful! Her. You're doing right by giving her time to get use to her new home. Any animal that's new to an enclosure and surroundings would be nervous. To pass on a tip I got from here, I'd advise covering the sides of the cages to offer a little more privacy because she is in an aquarium, worked great for my Boa.
DeadlyDesires
08-02-13, 11:52 PM
Don't pay no mind, there are always little debates on here.. the point is that she has a good home and she is deff gorgeous! just take care of her!
KORBIN5895
08-03-13, 12:07 AM
Thanks for the fun drama guys. .
No need to thank me ma'am. That's what I'm here for.
SuperSleuth
08-03-13, 12:22 AM
Ha Korbin! I know people may disagree with me but I like your style ;)
I'll look into getting or making her a covering to go over at least three sides of the tank. I know an aquarium isn't ideal for a snake but she'll outgrow it soon (it's a 20gal) and then I'll find something more suitable for her. Any recommendation? I really don't want to go with a plastic bin option, my husband does want her on a semi-display but I don't want her feeling vulnerable either.
Cmwells90
08-03-13, 12:37 AM
I'll look into getting or making her a covering to go over at least three sides of the tank. I know an aquarium isn't ideal for a snake but she'll outgrow it soon (it's a 20gal) and then I'll find something more suitable for her. Any recommendation? I really don't want to go with a plastic bin option, my husband does want her on a semi-display but I don't want her feeling vulnerable either.
I've seen a lot of really good cages from Animal plastics, you can find them at Animal Plastics (http://www.apcages.com/). They're cost effective, and look great. Or you can build your own. This is probably the route I'm going to take as my BCC gets larger because I enjoy these kinda things! I noticed you said your husband was going to be making a top, so it may be an option for you too!
As for the covers, right now I'm using paper towels until I can find something aesthetically pleasing for a long term solution. I've seen some backgrounds for cages that has like pictures of trees and waterfalls. This might be the option I go with.
SnakeyJay
08-03-13, 01:18 AM
The yellow/orange will not disappear with time... If you want a white boa you'll pay good money for a moonglow, snow etc..
Congrats on your boa and good luck :)
KORBIN5895
08-03-13, 01:39 AM
Ha Korbin! I know people may disagree with me but I like your style ;)
I'll look into getting or making her a covering to go over at least three sides of the tank. I know an aquarium isn't ideal for a snake but she'll outgrow it soon (it's a 20gal) and then I'll find something more suitable for her. Any recommendation? I really don't want to go with a plastic bin option, my husband does want her on a semi-display but I don't want her feeling vulnerable either.
Don't let the lie to you, they love me.
Check the general enclosure forum.
SuperSleuth
08-03-13, 01:58 AM
I just pulled her out for the first time in several days and she behaved herself pretty well. Unfortunately my phone will only let me upload one picture at a time.
SuperSleuth
08-03-13, 02:02 AM
Another one:
Corey209
08-03-13, 02:04 AM
Look at the eye again.
Also you would be the first person I have ever heard of that was able tell a kahl from a sharp visually.
Don't Sharp's usually retain more color than the Kahl line?
SuperSleuth
08-03-13, 02:07 AM
Last one! I don't have a name for her yet either.
KORBIN5895
08-03-13, 02:44 AM
Don't Sharp's usually retain more color than the Kahl line?
Usually but what happens when you get that really popping kahl or a super washed out sharp? Go check fauna and you will see tons of baby sharps that look no different than a baby kahl. It's about as accurate as using albino "markers" for het albinos.
Also for clarification albinos tend to have much redder eyes where hypos have a lighter color because of the lack of melanin. These pics show that the eye is pretty red where as the first one looked more silver and pink.
SuperSleuth
08-03-13, 03:06 AM
Thanks Korbin :) I love genetics but I'm totally new to snake genetics (I know a crap load of dog genetics). Looks like I'll be doing some serious reading soon about hypos and morphs. Do you have any suggestions?
KORBIN5895
08-03-13, 05:03 AM
Thanks Korbin :) I love genetics but I'm totally new to snake genetics (I know a crap load of dog genetics). Looks like I'll be doing some serious reading soon about hypos and morphs. Do you have any suggestions?
Check cutting edge herps. Vin Russo is a real stand up guy and knows his stuff.
Don't Sharp's usually retain more color than the Kahl line?
yes they do!! they actually gain more color with age while kahls fade out. I keep plenty examples of both morphs!!
yes you can find examples of sharps and kahls that look like faded out bananas. These animals are the low grade, thrown together animals. If you found quality animals that have been selectively bred for their individual morphs charastics their is a huge difference.
My chin is on the desk!
I used to love this place, helped out a lot of people with their boas. Now suddenly people who don't even have boas have all the answers! There is no where in the reptile industry that I get so disregarded and disrespected as I do here! Honestly I think you guys know I don't argue well without showing out and you all like to troll and push my buttons.
when you go searching for morphs, and genetics Go do what Kevin suggest ask around to the top guys in the game.
a warning against flippers!!
Flippers buy animals at a cheap price, takes a breeders hard work and sells it to make a profit. They usually know nothing of the genetics, or care of these animals. They have no paperwork. They have them up for sale a week later! quarantine hasn't happened. The animal is getting shipped and shipped by the time they get to you, who knows what kind of mess you got! Most people that have spent yr raising their animals for breeding projects cant stand a flipper and I am one of them. Ill be damned if someone turns a buck off of my productions! Whats funny is the few people I know that buy whole litters, don't put it out there that they just bought this litter off of someone else. So people get led to believe that the litter was produced by said person and that they are purchasing a boa from a "professional" or a legit person!!
Kevin, I had no clue you flipped Ive never even seen a boa that was yours or for sale by you anywhere besides those aby jungles you were emailing me about asking ME a bunch of questions. Its incredible to me that you seem to think you can tell someone what they see and what they cant see. oh wait, you read something some where my bad!!
That eyeball is so red, it must be a sunglow ;) <~~~~genius right there!!
lady_bug87
08-03-13, 07:25 AM
yes they do!! they actually gain more color with age while kahls fade out. I keep plenty examples of both morphs!!
yes you can find examples of sharps and kahls that look like faded out bananas. These animals are the low grade, thrown together animals. If you found quality animals that have been selectively bred for their individual morphs charastics their is a huge difference.
My chin is on the desk!
I used to love this place, helped out a lot of people with their boas. Now suddenly people who don't even have boas have all the answers! There is no where in the reptile industry that I get so disregarded and disrespected as I do here! Honestly I think you guys know I don't argue well without showing out and you all like to troll and push my buttons.
when you go searching for morphs, and genetics Go do what Kevin suggest ask around to the top guys in the game.
a warning against flippers!!
Flippers buy animals at a cheap price, takes a breeders hard work and sells it to make a profit. They usually know nothing of the genetics, or care of these animals. They have no paperwork. They have them up for sale a week later! quarantine hasn't happened. The animal is getting shipped and shipped by the time they get to you, who knows what kind of mess you got! Most people that have spent yr raising their animals for breeding projects cant stand a flipper and I am one of them. Ill be damned if someone turns a buck off of my productions! Whats funny is the few people I know that buy whole litters, don't put it out there that they just bought this litter off of someone else. So people get led to believe that the litter was produced by said person and that they are purchasing a boa from a "professional" or a legit person!!
Kevin, I had no clue you flipped Ive never even seen a boa that was yours or for sale by you anywhere besides those aby jungles you were emailing me about asking ME a bunch of questions. Its incredible to me that you seem to think you can tell someone what they see and what they cant see. oh wait, you read something some where my bad!!
That eyeball is so red, it must be a sunglow ;) <~~~~genius right there!!
Jen
I like you. You KNOW I do. But drama seems to follow you. When people agree with you you're golden and when they don't you do your best to discredit their character. Case in point you argued with Aaron and when he asked you to give him credible sources of information on the use of probiotics in boa regurge you attacked his character by insinuating he was polite when apparently 'sending you pervy PMs' now that Kevin is disagreeing with you and your sources of 'top guys' you attack HIS character by bringing up fb and random naked pictures.
You seem to make a lot of enemies wherever you go so I highly doubt this forum is the most disrespectful to you.
As a woman in this hobby I'm telling you that you aren't doing the rest of us any favors. Its hard enough for women in this hobby to be respected and this type of arguing isn't helping. I'm sure you probably know your stuff but acting pouty and indignant isn't helping your case. It certainly isn't helping our male counterparts see us as equals.
Argue. Defend your point. But make it about the topic not external crap you seem to cherry pick to prove some point that these guys are jerks and so you're right by default
Because youve seen whatever communications I have outside this forum??
Been here for awhile never had problems here until this yr and only with the 2 people known to be jerks here!! The perv stuff only comes from the convos we had else where the things I have said do get me targeted for that....
lady_bug87
08-03-13, 08:46 AM
Just stop.
I know there is at least one BOI thread that paints you in a light that would very quickly deter people from doing any kind of business with you.
Whatever perverse conversations you have and with whom in private is your business. My point still stands. Make your arguments about the issue NOT the person your argument is with.
Yes I have 1 boi thread that isnt pretty (i posted it, never had one posted against me all positive feedback)...again I get attacked often for my personal page or everyday convos im pretty free spirited. On a business/reptile level never once! Kevin trolls every single boi thread. And just like the Aaron thing you came to back them up and try too discredit. Me with that same boi thread. No I dont like being told im wrong by people that imo have no exeperince at all (as most people wouldnt like it either) and by people who used to personally chat with me often asking for my advice/knowledge I do get butt hurt and do take it personal no denial there. I have a strong customer base People here suddenly deciding they dont like me is just fine I guess! Trolling me isnt gonna run me out!
SuperSleuth
08-03-13, 10:04 AM
Look Jen, I have no idea who you or anyone else on this forum is, but...
I like a good, healthy debate. I like seeing the differing opinions and everyone is entitled to one. However, turning my thread from a reptile debate into personal vendetta kind of sucks, especially my first thread. You're more than welcome to argue to your heart's content via private messaging (I'm assuming the forum has it) or Facebook but for the love of god please stick to the subject. I don't have an opinion either way about you, so don't think I'm out to get you or run you off, but now I feel like an unwanted outsider on my own thread. It's not very welcoming.
Carry on.
I do apologize for that!! I am one that always hates when new people fell mistreated, attacked or disregarded. (evident in a lot of my thread responses) I did not mean to high jack your thread at all. It wasn't my original intent.
BoaBoy91
08-03-13, 10:12 AM
Wow people on here be acting like they are world class breeders and the person that discovered the kahl/sharp albino genetic. I think this is a place where you put in your 2 cents and why you think your correct and then just let it go. Then just tally up all the people that think is sharp or kahl and go with the highest number or ask the breeder himself. my 2 cents is i think its a sharp albino.....BUT I MAY BE WRONG.....haha dont jump down my throat
BoaBoy91
08-03-13, 10:25 AM
But for the record i believe both Jendee and KORBIN5895 have good points now if only they could join forces and uses their snake knowledge for the good and not for evil (aka blunt arguments lol)
KORBIN5895
08-03-13, 02:09 PM
I'll deal with this shortly.
Aaron_S
08-03-13, 02:14 PM
I'll deal with this shortly.
Just let it go...
infernalis
08-03-13, 06:01 PM
Look Jen, I have no idea who you or anyone else on this forum is, but...
I like a good, healthy debate. I like seeing the differing opinions and everyone is entitled to one. However, turning my thread from a reptile debate into personal vendetta kind of sucks, especially my first thread. Carry on.
I agree, Take it to the lounge people.
This is my khal boy but she dont look anything like him, or wait the last pic looked alot like him :o
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/Kimmie_Miichu92/DSCF0987.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/Kimmie_Miichu92/media/DSCF0987.jpg.html)
Corey209
08-04-13, 06:28 AM
Usually but what happens when you get that really popping kahl or a super washed out sharp? Go check fauna and you will see tons of baby sharps that look no different than a baby kahl. It's about as accurate as using albino "markers" for het albinos.
Also for clarification albinos tend to have much redder eyes where hypos have a lighter color because of the lack of melanin. These pics show that the eye is pretty red where as the first one looked more silver and pink.
Didn't even think about the quality aspect, good point.
yes they do!! they actually gain more color with age while kahls fade out. I keep plenty examples of both morphs!!
yes you can find examples of sharps and kahls that look like faded out bananas. These animals are the low grade, thrown together animals. If you found quality animals that have been selectively bred for their individual morphs charastics their is a huge difference.
How is the OP's snake not selectively bred? 100% guarantee the snake isn't an import so someone obviously bred it for the traits it has. The best breeder in the world isn't going to have all stunners EVERY time even if they're using the most expensive snakes in the world. His animal without a doubt is still a quality animal, just not "trophy" quality and if he were to breed it there's a chance it could make one of the most beautiful litter's we have ever seen.
Also not trying to be rude but you should always read over what you write/type for grammar and use spell check.
I never said his animal wasnt qaulity....
And ive been doing this all on my cell phone, im not cocerned with how my spelling/grammar is through text in social media.
You bred nice animals x nice animals your going to get nice animals. You bred "average" you will get average. People dont have big dollars to spend on qaulity breeders sometimes and will bred what thry can afford, making more affordable but not as nice animals was my only point in that. Not insulting the ops boa in anyway shape or form
Terranaut
08-04-13, 08:00 AM
Wow. Another thread bites the dust. To all parties....can we syick to the topic and keep the personal stuff out? This is exactly why I took my questions to pm and left it out of the thread. I personally don't think you can look at a pic or 2 and judge kahl/sharp from it and certainly would not spend money based on an eye unless it was the kahl eye issue.
BUT.... that being said if this can be proven accurate I can also accept it and move on.
Lets share wisdom here....not personal crap.
I never said his animal wasnt qaulity....
And ive been doing this all on my cell phone, im not cocerned with how my spelling/grammar is through text in social media.
You bred nice animals x nice animals your going to get nice animals. You bred "average" you will get average. People dont have big dollars to spend on qaulity breeders sometimes and will bred what thry can afford, making more affordable but not as nice animals was my only point in that. Not insulting the ops boa in anyway shape or form
so what is mine? XD
Corey209
08-04-13, 08:09 AM
so what is mine? XD
Yours, which is what makes it special but it does look like a very nice Kahl in my opinion.
Yours, which is what makes it special but it does look like a very nice Kahl in my opinion.
thanks ^v^
Aaron_S
08-04-13, 10:14 AM
I never said his animal wasnt qaulity....
And ive been doing this all on my cell phone, im not cocerned with how my spelling/grammar is through text in social media.
You bred nice animals x nice animals your going to get nice animals. You bred "average" you will get average. People dont have big dollars to spend on qaulity breeders sometimes and will bred what thry can afford, making more affordable but not as nice animals was my only point in that. Not insulting the ops boa in anyway shape or form
I understand what you're saying and it's true, very simplified, but true.
I don't like how you put it though. Only because it comes off as if you don't have money you can't make great animals. If you breed "average", as you say, to "average", you can still have great, amazing looking animals in the litter. May just have fewer than if you bred the "best" as you say. I only point this out because 1. I don't like how it sounds discouraging to those who can't invest "high dollars" or 2. Certain characteristics aren't inherited the same way as albino or anery is.
For example, I used a female that is pretty for her mutation and a male, I would consider decent, and ended up with crazy blushing in my ball pythons and a lot of orange coming through. I'd say the mother was "upper average" and the male to be "average" and I got outstanding animals.
"Best" is also subjective when it comes to these animals. If the "best" is reduced to me and busy pattern is the "best" to you then we're both going to pick different animals from possibly the same litter. We may even consider the others animal to be "average".
Breeding is subjective, not black and white, and I'm only using your post to highlight that for all those reading about characteristics.
so what is mine? XD
Yours looks kahl to me, with a perfect eyeball to use for macro pictures! Very cool!
Id love it if I could post without someone being up my patutie!!
Aaron_S
08-04-13, 11:05 AM
Yours looks kahl to me, with a perfect eyeball to use for macro pictures! Very cool!
Id love it if I could post without someone being up my patutie!!
It's not about you. I don't care who posts the information.
One of my professors used to call these type of opportunities a "teachable moment". I like to continue that trend.
Sorry that you can't see it's not about you personally, as I mentioned in the bottom of my post.
I dont so much thinks its a "teachable" moment. More of a difference of opinion. As most of this thread has been. People are allowed to have a different opinion. I believe there are "pet" qaulity animals and "breeder" qaulity animals same as dogs, horses ect. Good genetics is good genetics
Aaron_S
08-04-13, 01:28 PM
I dont so much thinks its a "teachable" moment. More of a difference of opinion. As most of this thread has been. People are allowed to have a different opinion. I believe there are "pet" qaulity animals and "breeder" qaulity animals same as dogs, horses ect. Good genetics is good genetics
We'll stop this topic now as clearly you don't grasp the full concept of genetics and how some of it works.
EDIT: Changed my mind. I'll post up the information from another thread by someone who does work full-time with genetics.
Your just one of those say the last word always gotta be right people
I repeat in my freaking opinion you get what you bred! Just like you get what you pay for! Pretty families have pretty kids!! This is why they Sterlize pedigree dogs, cats, show hrse bc they are not breedable. Or wouldnt pass ideal traits. Qaulity animals do get bred that is all im freakin saying get off of it already!
lady_bug87
08-04-13, 01:44 PM
I dont so much thinks its a "teachable" moment. More of a difference of opinion. As most of this thread has been. People are allowed to have a different opinion. I believe there are "pet" qaulity animals and "breeder" qaulity animals same as dogs, horses ect. Good genetics is good genetics
The variability of colours and patterns within the same morphs is proof that this is incorrect. I can have 2 albinos. One can be completely washed out. The other bright and on fire. Genetically they are equal. Albino is albino its going to perform the same function. Just because the parent is a vibrant example of the gene does NOT guarantee all the offspring will exhibit the same characteristics. Though it could increase the likelihood of bright coloured offspring. Faded animals have a chance of producing both bright and dull animals just like their vibrant counter parts.
This is why line breeding is common. The breeder chooses the animals who possess the most favorable characteristics and hope for offspring that represent the best possible combinations of those attributes. Whether they do or not has less to do with the genetics passed from parents to children and more to do with which traits are visually represented in individual offspring.
lady_bug87
08-04-13, 01:50 PM
Why are you so against decent discussion?
Lankyrob
08-04-13, 02:04 PM
Your just one of those say the last word always gotta be right people
I repeat in my freaking opinion you get what you bred! Just like you get what you pay for! Pretty families have pretty kids!! This is why they Sterlize pedigree dogs, cats, show hrse bc they are not breedable. Or wouldnt pass ideal traits. Qaulity animals do get bred that is all im freakin saying get off of it already!
So, i am ugly, my wife is gorgeous so my daughter can only be "average"? Genetics just isnt that simple in any way shape or form.
Of course with selective breeding you can choose "traits" but theree are no guarantees that those traits will be passed on.
Aaron_S
08-04-13, 02:39 PM
Your just one of those say the last word always gotta be right people
I repeat in my freaking opinion you get what you bred! Just like you get what you pay for! Pretty families have pretty kids!! This is why they Sterlize pedigree dogs, cats, show hrse bc they are not breedable. Or wouldnt pass ideal traits. Qaulity animals do get bred that is all im freakin saying get off of it already!
1. That's not how humans work.
2. I get your opinion but you're passing it off as it's exactly how it works. Again this is nothing to do with you and I don't get why someone can't chime in using your post and make a discussion out of it. I'm allowed to make my opinion known just as well as you are. You just think every time it's some sort of argument because of YOU or because how some past thing. It's not. It's purely for an educational moment.
3. It is a teachable moment. Lori explained it extremely well. I'll go into more depth though as I stated earlier. It's pretty much the topic discussed in this thread so I think it's worth putting up.
4. As I said earlier you ARE right about "quality breeders" and making "quality babies" out of them. Where you're wrong is assuming everyone works on the same definition of "quality". There's no council saying "this trait is A grade and this trait is B grade". Doesn't work that way.
5. Simply put, if there's a litter of albino boas and you and I are looking to make our future breeding projects. I find a really reduced pattern to strike me and I want to make more reduced animals so I buy two of those. You on the other hand want a really yellow snake with lots of fading going on. You buy two of those. I found the "best quality" for my projects and you found the "best quality" for yours. No one is wrong here. I find it arrogant to say that someone's animal is "pet" grade and that you only have "breeder" grade animals. It's subjective and rude to state otherwise. No one, not even the 'big guys' have a right to tell someone what they find attractive in an animal or project is wrong. They may disagree with it and not like it themselves but it's wrong to say it's garbage and not worth doing.
6. Here's a quote that I've been allowed to used on these extra traits we're talking about. It's polygenetics. Green tree pythons have been bred like this for years. It's based on ball pythons but can be used for boas since that's how "pastel dreams" were made.
Taken from another forum with permission - - - "So, I have taken the stance that "Fader" is a polygenetic trait. For the sake of argument let us say that there are six genes involved that primarily contribute to high levels of blushing: Q, R, S, T, U and W. For the sake of simplicity we will just say that all of them are inc-dom type inheritance pattern (in reality it is going to be much more complicated but I prefer to look at it this way because the simple explanation gets the point across better)
Year 0: You start your project out with three male Pastels which, by the very nature of the Pastel gene, are more blushed out than your average WT. Now, the best way to get nice Pastel offspring it to breed your Pastel to an animal that has good blushing as well. So you go out and you find twelve WT females (four for every male that you have) that have good blushing to them; each of these females is carrying at least on of the six genes I mentioned above.
Year 1: You breed your Pastels to the blushed WTs and from each clutch you hold-back the best looking Pastel male and the best looking Pastel female. End of the year you get rid of everything but your Year 0 blushed WT females and your Year 1 holdback males and females
Year 2: You breed each of your Year 1 holdback males to four of the blushed WTs. These are going to be "who is your daddy" type clutches and from each clutch you hold-back the best looking Pastel male and the best looking Pastel female. End of the year you get rid of everything but your Year 0 blushed WT females, your Year 1 holdback females and your Year 2 holdback males and females.
Year 3: You breed each of your Year 2 holdback males to two of the blushed WTs and two of the Year 1 holdback females. These are going to be "who is your daddy" type clutches and from each clutch you hold-back the best looking Pastel male and the best looking Pastel female. End of the year you get rid of everything but your Year 1, and Year 2 holdback females and your Year 3 holdback males and females.
Year 4: You breed each of your Year 3 holdback males to two of the Year 1 holdback females and two of the Year 2. These are going to be "who is your daddy" type clutches and from each clutch you hold-back the best looking Pastel male and the best looking Pastel female. End of the year you get rid of everything but your Year 2 and Year 3 holdback females and your Year 4 holdback males and females.
Year 5: You breed each of your Year 4 holdback males to two of the Year 2 holdback females and two of the Year 3 holdback females. These are going to be "who is your daddy" type clutches and from each clutch you hold-back the best looking Pastel male and the best looking Pastel female. End of the year you get rid of everything but your Year 3 and Year 4 holdback females and your Year 5 holdback males and females.
And on and on and on.
It is this iterative process that is enriching for the six genes. The first year your hold backs are only carrying one of the genes, the second year they are carrying two, the third year, three... And once you start rotating in the Year 2 and above holdback females you begin to enrich faster because those Year 2 and later females are carrying more than one of the genes. It is when you get to the point were you have all six of the "blushing" genes in one animal you have a "Fader"" - Asplundii
7. There's a lot of traits that are sometimes bred for. I don't know how genetic they are but things like good feeding, large litter/egg clutch etc. are focused on in some instances. If I want a great feeder I'd take a slightly "dull" animal any day because feeding to me is of utmost importance in my collection and my customers.
Tho it is proven that many peoples eye coloers are a fusion of the normal blue brown and green anything else is unpure someone told, like im very small because my dad and mom was, and my hair is brown because my mom had brown hair :).
so if you took a very beautiful women with a very beautiful man (by nature).
Tall, blond hair, blue eyes, a D/C cup. <-- women xD
Tall, blond hair, blue eyes, nice build without building it yourself, a man who can eat alot without getting fat (I cant remember what it is called lol).
Then I think you would get a very beautiful person/baby too. Ofc in my eyes everyone is beautiful but this was just a exsemple.
(sorry if my spelling is wrong did it fast ^^)
Aaron_S
08-05-13, 02:55 PM
Tho it is proven that many peoples eye coloers are a fusion of the normal blue brown and green anything else is unpure someone told, like im very small because my dad and mom was, and my hair is brown because my mom had brown hair :).
so if you took a very beautiful women with a very beautiful man (by nature).
Tall, blond hair, blue eyes, a D/C cup. <-- women xD
Tall, blond hair, blue eyes, nice build without building it yourself, a man who can eat alot without getting fat (I cant remember what it is called lol).
Then I think you would get a very beautiful person/baby too. Ofc in my eyes everyone is beautiful but this was just a exsemple.
(sorry if my spelling is wrong did it fast ^^)
Not necessarily. The genetic line plays a part in this.
If one of those tall people come from a relatively short family, then the child could be short themselves.
Look at this way. "Normal" people can have dwarf/midget/little person babies. And vice versa.
It isn't quite so simple is the point I've been trying to make.
Not necessarily. The genetic line plays a part in this.
If one of those tall people come from a relatively short family, then the child could be short themselves.
Look at this way. "Normal" people can have dwarf/midget/little person babies. And vice versa.
It isn't quite so simple is the point I've been trying to make.
ah yea I forgot that xD
oh I think I dreamed abit there of the perfect man haha
KORBIN5895
08-05-13, 04:17 PM
oh I think I dreamed abit there of the perfect man haha
You were dreaming of me?
You were dreaming of me?
rofl :laugh:
marvelfreak
08-05-13, 04:27 PM
rofl :laugh:
Kevin,
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/29137796.jpg
KORBIN5895
08-05-13, 04:34 PM
She said she was dreaming of the perfect man..... and we all know I'm perfect.
lady_bug87
08-05-13, 04:49 PM
She said she was dreaming of the perfect man..... and we all know I'm perfect.
At least you think so babe that's all that matters
marvelfreak
08-05-13, 04:52 PM
She said she was dreaming of the perfect man..... and we all know I'm perfect.
I thought she meant a dwarf/midget/little person was her idea of a perfect man. lol
KORBIN5895
08-05-13, 04:57 PM
I'm not sure what you two are trying to say.....
Mikoh4792
08-05-13, 09:53 PM
I'm not sure what you two are trying to say.....
What they are trying to say is, I am the perfect man :cool:
lady_bug87
08-06-13, 07:47 AM
Not without photographic proof you aren't
smy_749
08-06-13, 10:15 AM
I have photographic proof from high school. bahaha
lady_bug87
08-06-13, 12:09 PM
Doesn't count
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