View Full Version : Sad day in my collection
Will0W783
07-26-13, 09:36 AM
I have posted several times about my Sumatran locale Wagler's viper, Bisa Ular. I've been fortunate to own this snake for about two years, and the guy who had her before me had her for 2 years as well. I'm not sure why, but the Sumatran Wagleri don't tend to fare as well in captivity as the other locales, and they tend to go downhill after about two years.
Bisa was my favorite snake overall- she had the most pleasant disposition of any viperid I've worked with (she only struck at me once the entire time I had her and that was when I walked by her cage during feeding). A few months ago she went off feed, and went into shed but didn't actually shed. She got a dull look to her, but then she began to eat again and seemed fine.
Wednesday when I came home from work, she had passed and was hangly limply across her perches. I'm still heartbroken and devastated- it's hard to go into the room at all and see the place where her cage sat. However, I am trying to focus on the good memories, and the fact that I had the privilege and honor to work with this majestic, beautiful animal for a few years.
R.I.P. "Bisa Ular"....you will never be forgotten.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Vipers/01edd802.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Vipers/01edd802.jpg.html)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Vipers/851cdb8e.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Vipers/851cdb8e.jpg.html)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Vipers/IMG_2670.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Vipers/IMG_2670.jpg.html)
Mark Taylor
07-26-13, 09:40 AM
Sorry for your loss.
KORBIN5895
07-26-13, 10:02 AM
Sorry to hear that Kim.
Sorry to hear that Kim :(
Kettennatter
07-26-13, 10:26 AM
Sorry to hear that. She was gorgeous.
Mikoh4792
07-26-13, 10:31 AM
Sorry for your loss.
Do you think it may have had something to do with the perches? I've heard that burnt pvc gasses out some toxic chemicals. If that's true being in an enclosed space would have made it worse.
Lankyrob
07-26-13, 10:48 AM
Sorry for your loss.
Do you think it may have had something to do with the perches? I've heard that burnt pvc gasses out some toxic chemicals. If that's true being in an enclosed space would have made it worse.
It will whilst it is being burned and for a short period afterwards but not continuously for the rest of its lifetime
So sorry Kim :(
I'm so sorry. She was beautiful.
Will0W783
07-26-13, 10:58 AM
Mikoh, the perches were washed several times in a dish detergent solution and scrubbed thoroughly before being used, so there's no possibility of it being due to the perches.
For whatever reason, no one seems to have been able to keep this locality healthy in captivity for more than a few years. It's possible that we are missing some part of their diet that they need, or that they simply don't have as long a lifespan as other species. Bisa spent 5-6 years in captivity, which is longer than any other Sumatran Wagleri that I'm aware of, but it still wasn't as long as most other species live.
Zoo Nanny
07-26-13, 11:03 AM
Kim my sympathies to you. She was a beautiful snake.
sweatshirt
07-26-13, 12:01 PM
She was stunning... I'm sorry for your loss :(
alessia55
07-26-13, 12:16 PM
RIP Bisa... I have more photos of her if you want me to post them
XO Kim
smy_749
07-26-13, 12:21 PM
Sorry to hear that kim. What are you planning to do with him now ? I know your a scientist which is why I ask ...
Will0W783
07-26-13, 01:08 PM
Sure Alessia, I'd love it if you posted more pictures!
Smy_749, I just buried this snake. There were no overt signs of illness, and I didn't have the equipment out of storage to do an autopsy.
marvelfreak
07-26-13, 01:59 PM
Kimberly i am so sorry for your lose. Big hug sent your way.
Concept9
07-26-13, 02:48 PM
Ugh . . . I'm sooo sooo sorry to hear this. :(
CK SandBoas
07-26-13, 02:58 PM
I am so sorry Kim! I know how much your animals mean to you,so i can only imagine how hard this is for you :(
Terranaut
07-26-13, 03:23 PM
Yup. Very sorry for your loss :(
But at the same time congrats on your success as a keeper.
Sorry to hear of the loss. However as for the perches being washed, plastics do what is called out gassing which can not be washed away. All plastics do it on different levels for example a car windshield gets the haze most people blame on smoke or dust. Here is a link that may make people think twice about using PVC
PVC plastic products outgas poisons (http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/products/106-household/206-pvc-plastic-products-outgas-poisons)
robertjnovak59
07-26-13, 07:49 PM
That was a gorgeous snake, I'm sorry to hear he passed.
Mikoh4792
07-26-13, 09:50 PM
Sorry to hear of the loss. However as for the perches being washed, plastics do what is called out gassing which can not be washed away. All plastics do it on different levels for example a car windshield gets the haze most people blame on smoke or dust. Here is a link that may make people think twice about using PVC
PVC plastic products outgas poisons (http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/products/106-household/206-pvc-plastic-products-outgas-poisons)
Scary. So according to that article, snake cages made out of pvc will outgass forever? That would be like putting a snake in a gas chamber(a very slow gas chamber). If that's the case I just wasted a lot of money on pvccages.
Scary. So according to that article, snake cages made out of pvc will outgass forever? That would be like putting a snake in a gas chamber(a very slow gas chamber). If that's the case I just wasted a lot of money on pvccages.
with proper ventilation it shouldn't be a problem however lets not hijack this thed i will start another to talk about this
alessia55
07-27-13, 10:05 AM
Sure Alessia, I'd love it if you posted more pictures!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_0290.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_0303.jpg
Will0W783
08-06-13, 06:44 AM
BryanB, the PVC perches have been in use by many keepers for many years...I don't think PVC had anything to do with it. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this locality of Wagler's viper seems not to survive for very long in captivity.
I just heard from a friend of mine at the Hamburg show on Saturday that a fellow in the snakes' native Malaysia has been doing a study on the local snakes. He's completed about 125 necropsies on deceased specimens and found that 99% of the snakes had ONLY frog matter in their stomachs. This leads me to wonder if there is something about feeding rodents or chicks in captivity that causes internal damage or organ failure or malnourishment to these snakes?
I'm so sorry for your loss, what a true beauty.
smy_749
08-06-13, 10:26 AM
Has anyone tried feeding strictly frogs?
Will0W783
08-06-13, 10:39 AM
SMY, I honestly don't know. The research from Malaysia just came out within the last month. He had also collected deceased captive specimens that people had lost, and found they all had markers of liver and kidney disease. His hypothesis is that the vipers receive much of their hydration from eating frogs, and that a diet of rodents/birds will strain their GI tract, cause loss of moisture and lead to kidney failure from dehydration and fatty liver disease.
I have been talking to a good friend of mine that deals with a lot of arboreal viperids, and if we have the chance to get more Sumatran Wagleri at some point, we will try all-frog diets for them. The problem is that if you buy a long-term captive specimen (fresh imports rarely turn up for sale) it likely already has some kidney/liver damage from rodent diet.
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