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Old 05-11-17, 12:22 PM   #31 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec-2015
Posts: 2,092
Re: Need Information please

Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
The one by John Courteney Smith mentions that UV lighting helps with shedding and growth...I have to mention that I've never used UV lighting for snakes yet have never had slow growers or bad sheds aside from perhaps a handful of tail tips over the years... Nothing mentioned about relative humidity, substrate choices, different prey items and the differences in nutrition...just UV. How can that not be regarded at best as extremely subjective?

The second paper has the following; "..This paper does not, however, establish whether snakes do synthesise vitamin D3 in the skin..." "...Nature typically utilises free resources very effectively; we should not be surprised if it turns out that very few snake species are unable to synthesise vitamin D3 in the skin under natual UVB light." It also goes on to mention that there is less risk of skin damage from the sun in comparison to one of the products studied.

@ Danny, that paper above mentions that it was actually a light with high UVB output, not UVC as you mentioned...I believe that's the same paper you're referring to? I will continue to use LED light in my vivs to enhance aesthetics. Practically everything so far I have read including what you has posted in months' past, although creating a bit of a grey area rather than black and white and very intriguing, seems subjectively biased. As far as your challenge is concerned, the desire for me to prove what you're asking simply isn't there. Why you ask? Well, when a new idea or method of keeping is domonstrated and the goal is for it to be accepted, it should really be proven in order for that to happen, not the other way around. I'll use UV lighting when it's demonstrated objectively that there is a benefit and will continue to raise, breed and sell perfectly healthy snakes without it just like the thousands of breeders before me. You will use UV because you think your snakes benefit from it, and there's nothing wrong with what either of us are doing at the end of the day. Still skeptical...intrigued...but skeptical.
You can ask Fran directly - it is her who has corrected her own research as that paper is somewhat old.

As to breeding success I don't think breeding in and of itself is proof of good or bad husbandry. Many animals will breed successfully in substandard conditions - think of puppy farms. Even humans will breed under sub par conditions.

Indeed I can post details of a recent paper that specifically demonstrated snakes breed when stressed.

Note I'm not for one minute suggesting you or anyone else on here keeps their snakes in substandard conditions - simply that breeding success is not necessarily an outright indicator.

As I say - why not try it with one of your snakes and see if you notice any behavioural changes. I was sceptical and tried it with my boa and the change was pretty immediate and very noticeable.

Francis Cosquieri who I cited earlier spends many $1000's a year on tubes so convinced is he both through the research and his own observations. By his own admission be wished that it was demonstrably shown to be not required as he would save himself a fortune.

TRD was sceptical and tried it and was very surprised by the results.

I will post details of plenty of papers also.

Ultimately yes it's a choice but when someone asks question is uv required the answer 'no' should be supported by the science to back it up just as the answer 'Yes' should be.

TRD and others have provided some papers to support the yes camp and i will post more later. I'm still waiting for papers to support the no camp.
Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you do not know why. Often these happen together, nothing works and nobody knows why. - Arihato
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Old 05-11-17, 01:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb-2016
Location: Venice
Age: 29
Posts: 23
Re: Need Information please

I just found some more interesting articles related to snake and uvb light exposure. Ore is just an exerpt from an article published on zoo biology, vol 29 issue #3. The link here.

The other is from a senior thesis that study how UVB Radiation Affects the Quality of the Female Sexual Attractiveness Pheromone of the Red-Sided Garter Snake. Here the exerpt (with a link to download the .doc file)
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Old 05-11-17, 01:38 PM   #33 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb-2016
Location: Venice
Age: 29
Posts: 23
Re: Need Information please

Also this research.

It's entitled Production of cutaneous vitamin D3 after UVB
radiation in reptiles and amphibians. In the species studied ball python and boa constrictor are included together with few other snakes
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Old 05-12-17, 08:27 AM   #34 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov-2014
Posts: 447
Re: Need Information please

Providing low level uvb for snakes can be cheap and easy... virtually all commercial fluorescent bulbs emit uvb. Even compact fluorescents emit some uvb. The amount isn't enough for species that genuinely require uvb for basking.

I have used compact fluorescents to provide lighting in cages in the past. The common cfl bulbs generally raised ambient temperatures by about 5-10 degrees Fahrenheit and the surfaces of the fixtures approached 100 F, a pretty popular basking spot surface temp for many species. The only behaviour changes that I observed were consistent with seeking heat, but then again I'm really only familiar with uv basking indicators in lizards and turtles. I can't say that I noticed any other improvements but then this was very low level uvb exposure, not a bulb designed to maximize its output.
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Old 05-15-17, 03:21 PM   #35 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb-2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 99
Re: Need Information please

Sorry for th late reply FWK. I heard back from Fran and she sent some papers. I'll read through them tonight and then post them here.

EDIT: Will have to wait till I have access to my computer. Can't open the Dropbox file on iPad.
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Last edited by Skipper7; 05-15-17 at 03:27 PM..
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