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Old 12-02-16, 09:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Jag neuro issues?

Hey all

So as some of you know I have a baby jag (among other things) carpet. Her laundry list of blood is in my other thread. I don't know much of anything on the Jag neuro issues. When she eats she strikes on target and hits. Which is more then I could say for my king. When I try to pick up her up she flees in a direct diliberate way. When I'm holding her she moves through my hands head level or pointed in the direction she is going. Only very rarely in the time I've had herhave I seen her head twist off axis and sort of flopped. I'm not sure if it's neuro related or just a very young snake learning to move as she was climbing her cage at the time and in a deli cup from the expo. My question is does a jags neuro issue change with age or if she is pretty okay now she'll be ok as an adult?
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Old 12-02-16, 10:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

I don't keep jags Blaze but my understanding is the neuro issues can manifest at any time during the animal's lifetime. It's a shame too because they're among the most beautiful of all the carpets imo. Some jags have it pretty bad and others may never show any outward signs. I hope yours is in the latter group.
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Old 12-03-16, 07:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

What Ziggy said. I have had 4 jags, and only 1 ever exhibited any neurological signs. It's not a common occurance and usually not near as noticeable as like the Spider balls.

With the biggest tip with them would be to never use chemicals in there enclosures. I use a solution of 4 parts water to 1 part white vinegar and .5 part lemon juice
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Old 12-03-16, 05:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

Thanks guys, she is in a planted tank at the moment and I plan to have her adult cage be bio active to aid in cleaning and humidity levels. Only the branches will need to be cleaned periodically. This will help cut down on cleaning and chemical exposure.
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Old 12-05-16, 09:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

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Originally Posted by aaron_cg View Post
What Ziggy said. I have had 4 jags, and only 1 ever exhibited any neurological signs. It's not a common occurance and usually not near as noticeable as like the Spider balls.

With the biggest tip with them would be to never use chemicals in there enclosures. I use a solution of 4 parts water to 1 part white vinegar and .5 part lemon juice
I have a spider that has never exhibited any serious "wobble". At most she has missed a very small percentage of strikes but so have my other snakes. Most of the spider owners I have spoken to have similar animals.
I don't know much about the jag Gene but I think the spider Gene gets a bad rap even though the serious cases are few and far between.
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Old 12-05-16, 09:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

The trait has a rather broad spectrum as to how it's exhibited. In both spider ball pythons and jaguar carpet pythons, we are speaking of the exact same gene in how it acts, how it is reproduced, what it creates, as well as the neurological condition that is associated with it. The issue has not proven to be seperable from the gene itself through outcrossing as it wasn't created by a lack of genetic diversity. Sometimes the neuro issues manifest themselves later, and in some animals it's only under extreme stress that it's exhibited, while others corkscrew and have problems righting themselves from the beginning.

Please don't interpret the following to be an attack on anyone, but having been in the hobby for a...little while...I think the following is worth noting whether it offends or not...just my perhaps jaded/biased opinion on the whole thing...
The really bad cases are not as few and far between as you may think and the "bad rap" is actually not a bad rap at all but a reality. In this thread alone we have one member saying that jags aren't as bad as spiders and another member stating that spiders have a bad rap...How's that for confusing? It is a thought that can be extended throughout the reptile keeping community, to be sure. In my opinion it isn't okay to propogate a trait that's "only a little bit messed up" for lack of a better term, but that's just my opinion and a prime example of how greed has snuck into the hobby and taken prescendent over ethics especially over the past few decades...and by that in regards to this situation I mean that the originators and first few who worked with it, knew that it had issues but got their asking price of multiple thousands of dollars for a genetically imperfect animal that looks really neat but has known issues...and now it's regarded as okay and not a big deal. I wouldn't breed jags or spiders no matter how beautiful and striking they may be.

I'm sure others would disagree and that's fine too. They aren't inherently wrong and people can agree to disagree.

Last edited by Andy_G; 12-05-16 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 12-05-16, 10:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

I agree alot with what Andy said. My 1st BP was a spider and his nuro got so bad I rehomed him and have no idea how he is doing. I will never own another spider gene ANYTHING again because of this personal experience.

That being said, I do still want a jag carpet in the future.

I think Spider BPs give the worst name to Nuro because they exibit it the most strongly. I know that I may end up with a jag carpet with the same issue, though I really hope I don't. And for me, it's not greed, but vanity. I know it's wrong, I understand the genetic flaw behind it, but they are just SO DANG PRETTY!

It doesn't make it right, but werher I do or don't own one isn't going to stop the breedere. So....might as well....right? >_>
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Old 12-05-16, 06:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
The trait has a rather broad spectrum as to how it's exhibited. In both spider ball pythons and jaguar carpet pythons, we are speaking of the exact same gene in how it acts, how it is reproduced, what it creates, as well as the neurological condition that is associated with it. The issue has not proven to be seperable from the gene itself through outcrossing as it wasn't created by a lack of genetic diversity. Sometimes the neuro issues manifest themselves later, and in some animals it's only under extreme stress that it's exhibited, while others corkscrew and have problems righting themselves from the beginning.

Please don't interpret the following to be an attack on anyone, but having been in the hobby for a...little while...I think the following is worth noting whether it offends or not...just my perhaps jaded/biased opinion on the whole thing...
The really bad cases are not as few and far between as you may think and the "bad rap" is actually not a bad rap at all but a reality. In this thread alone we have one member saying that jags aren't as bad as spiders and another member stating that spiders have a bad rap...How's that for confusing? It is a thought that can be extended throughout the reptile keeping community, to be sure. In my opinion it isn't okay to propogate a trait that's "only a little bit messed up" for lack of a better term, but that's just my opinion and a prime example of how greed has snuck into the hobby and taken prescendent over ethics especially over the past few decades...and by that in regards to this situation I mean that the originators and first few who worked with it, knew that it had issues but got their asking price of multiple thousands of dollars for a genetically imperfect animal that looks really neat but has known issues...and now it's regarded as okay and not a big deal. I wouldn't breed jags or spiders no matter how beautiful and striking they may be.

I'm sure others would disagree and that's fine too. They aren't inherently wrong and people can agree to disagree.

Couldn't of said it better myself!
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Old 12-10-16, 12:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

I have a 6 year old 75%irian jaya jag. The main thing that makes them show their neurological issues is stress.
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Old 12-10-16, 04:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minkness View Post
It doesn't make it right, but werher I do or don't own one isn't going to stop the breedere. So....might as well....right? >_>
Actually I think it does make a difference. It's the same reason buying from pet stores that don't take care of their animals makes a difference. As long as you keep something profitable, people will keep doing it.
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Old 12-10-16, 05:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

The difference is, is that an individual pet store will go out of business if people boycot it. The act of breeding things will not change because one store or one breeder go out of business.
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Last edited by Minkness; 12-10-16 at 06:29 PM..
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Old 12-10-16, 06:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

Not breeding as a whole. Just animals with neuro issues. If people aren't willing to buy a jag or spider anymore, no one would breed those.
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Old 12-10-16, 06:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

Perhaps it's the sinic in me, but I don't ever see that happening.
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Old 12-12-16, 08:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

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Not breeding as a whole. Just animals with neuro issues. If people aren't willing to buy a jag or spider anymore, no one would breed those.
If only a few were around and everybody had the same mindsight i'd agree sockSnek...but now almost all the carpets you find for sale are jag crosses of some kind these days...it's practically inescapable. A very nice thought but not one that'll trigger any mass epiphany with so many people owning and breeding so many beautiful jag and spider gene animals. I'd rescue a jag gene animal if someone couldn't take care of it anymore or something along those lines...even if it were 7 or 8 feet of sheer nastiness...but I wouldn't buy one personally from a breeder. Can't really blame those that would, though!
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Old 12-12-16, 12:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Jag neuro issues?

Well said Andy =)
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