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Old 05-24-12, 11:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Hognose venom "debate" over.

Well at least it is for me! Other sites there are many people who are firmly one one side of the fence or the other as to if hognoses are venomous or not. I know my first experience with a bite, there was only a small localized reaction, and benadryl seemed to help. So, I was still unsure as to if it was venom, or from the snake's saliva.
There was another post on here recently, where the issue was brought up again, and it was made a little clearer that they do have primative venom glands.
I have to say, after last night...I agree. Benadryl is NOT working this time.



Right after the bite.


an hour later


today. As you can see, since i was bitten at about 11 pm last night...there is a pretty serious reaction! Numbness, and soreness are from the swelling. And there is a LOT of swelling...it is the tightest swelling i've ever had. Man it hurts!!
Radiating all the way around the hand, mostly on the back, but now reaching the wrist. It will have been about 24 hours later once i painstakingly type this and get it posted *lol*

So, all i was doing was cleaning out his cage. I usually hold him in the palm of my hand. He chills out, no big deal. Yesterday, i got my new garter snakes and had cut up some fish for them. I realized too late, after his bite, that my hands still faintly smelled of fish. He just sat there until i was done with his tank, and then just...ate me! lol and HARD not striking, just next thing i knew i was being bitten. He would NOT let go. I held him under water....he wasn't even wiggling. Finally my husband tried to drip some alcohol on his nose (i hated doing that)...that didn't really work either, so i tried the water again, and he finally losened. But then we realized his rear facing fangs were stuck, so we kind of had to push him off.
He's fine. Congealed blood and snake mouth slime everwhere. By the time he let go i was already swollen.

Later, i went and gave him a freshwater silverside fish. He gobbled it down *rolls eyes*

So, i am faced with this huge giant bubble of a hand. They sent me home from work today (i told them it was a bee sting...LOL) and I do have a doctor's appointment. Just one i needed anyway for a check up...maybe they can give me a shot.
Anyone know about this in regards as to what i can do for the swelling in the meantime? it's so huge and awkward. Really really tight and painful. I honestly think it's getting bigger, too, still.
Compression? I'm taking some benadryl anyway, i don't really know what else to do!
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Old 05-24-12, 11:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Let me first say, that totally looks like it hurts! Call me Captain Obvious. Second, you can try an ice pack to keep the swelling down. I've read with other venomous snakes that if you slow the blood flow down it will buy you enough time. Looks like you are having a bad reaction. It actually looks like I di when I get stung by some stinging critter.

I hope yer Dr. knows what to do better than I. I asked my sister who's a nurse and she's never heard of anyone coming in with a hognose bite. She did say put an icepack to slow the blood flow and reduce swelling and get to a Dr. immediately.
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Old 05-24-12, 11:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

I cant believe booze did not work. You did use straight up hard liquor right?
I mean dumping a bit if wine on him wouldn't be the same as rum on the nose.
Even my king who won't stop for anything else even ice lets go instantly with booze on the nose.
Anyway. Sorry you got schooled by your hoggie but thanks for sharing.
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Old 05-24-12, 12:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

i think i will go with some ice and a nap, for now lol

we used rubbing alcohol...but regardless, the problem was also he had his fangs in too well, and he was stuck...he figured the solution was to swallow me lol

it's so annoying too because he had been refusing food, and going into shed...havent seen the eyes change, but he's well overdue, and wanted nothing to do with food. i had to take him all the way out to disinfect, and he usually just sits there nicely. apparently fish smell is irresistible. you'd have thought i learned he has a great nose, after he bit my thumb when he smelled frog on it. i didn't think he'd go for FISH!
ugh. and to think this is the snake i couldn't get to eat for months when i first got him!
ok hard to type now : )
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Last edited by jaleely; 05-24-12 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 05-24-12, 12:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Geez, in that photo that's comparing your hands.... !!!!! OUCH!
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Old 05-24-12, 12:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

whether it is administered in the saliva or not does not make it any less venom. Colubrids that do not have hollow fangs secrete venom through the saliva glands, doesn;t make it not venom
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Old 05-24-12, 12:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Dont know how things have changed as it has been about ten years since my first aid training but we were told not to compress a swelling that is due to poisoning ( am guessing the same for envenomation?) as it will force the poison (venom) further away from the injection point and cause further damage.

Personally with swelling that bad i would be at the ER getting it checked before you lose any circulation or get any tissue damage.
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Old 05-24-12, 12:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

hasnt occurred to me to go to the er...i'd be worried about the cost. my husband is already mad they sent me home from work lol
plus i don't want to make the hobby look bad.
but you do what you gotta do sometimes. i did get a regular doc appointment for a few hours from now.

i hope there isn't any damage! and i won't compress then...it's just sooo tight! i'll ice until i get to the docs
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Old 05-24-12, 12:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Im trying to understand where the debate is...?

Hognose snakes are Opisthoglyphous, and produce modified saliva (venom).
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Old 05-24-12, 12:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

I hate to be the negative one but the "cost" could be much worse than monetary if it isnt checked out and you do start losing circulation
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Old 05-24-12, 12:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD35WIN.AS.ONE View Post
Im trying to understand where the debate is...?

Hognose snakes are Opisthoglyphous, and produce modified saliva (venom).
Apparently, a LOT of people have trouble with this concept!
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Old 05-24-12, 03:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

you cold also try Ibuprofen it helps somewhat keep swelling down
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Old 05-24-12, 04:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

I don't think ibuprofen is a good idea. Your liver and kidneys are already going to be working overtime with the envenomation. Ibuprofen will tax them further. I would think a bucket of ice water and your doctors appointment are best
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Old 05-24-12, 04:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD35WIN.AS.ONE View Post
Im trying to understand where the debate is...?

Hognose snakes are Opisthoglyphous, and produce modified saliva (venom).
It's due to the fact a lot of people don't take rear fanged snakes seriously. They said the same thing about boomslangs until someone died. They said the same thing about vine snakes, until someone died. A hognose WILL kill someone and then they'll be venomous.

people don't want to believe it's "more than a bee sting."

Melissa, I hope for the best and your hand. Benedryl isn't working because you've already used it once. In general, venoms get used to their counter part quite frequently with snakes and thus the antivenim usually doesn't work or the person becomes allergic to it.
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Old 05-24-12, 05:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Hognose venom "debate" over.

Too true Aaron. I want to say i take them seriously, but obviously I allow myself a false sense of security since they are usually so docile. My one male has never even acted upset...however this male is a very feisty baby, who should be handled more seriously. I just didn't think. I really didn't think he'd care that i couldn't get the fish smell off of my hands *lol*
That's twice i've underestimated him. Completely my fault and I admit it!
It's too easy to get in the mindset that he's a cute silly little critter....which he is, but he is a critter with instinct and should be respected as such.

What does this mean "venoms get used to their counter part quite frequently"? lol
I just mean explain that further for me.

Honestly, the reason i posted the title the way i did is because MANY people, me included scoff the idea that these snakes can cause harm. I didn't really scoff, but i was unsure about the reaction, i should say.

My swollen hand that' now reached past my wrist begs to differ *lol*
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