border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Enclosure Creation Forums > General Enclosure Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-17, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Trying to fit things in



So far this is what I am thinking about for the baby hognose I will be getting. I am still not happy with where the water is. I plan to make the square hide on the warm side. I may find something other than the coconut hut for the cool side. My thought for the square on the hot side is that I can put some damp moss in if needed to help with shedding. I am not planning to keep it moist all the time. I put the rock in the water dish so it can get out easier. I don't know if that is needed. Any suggestion welcome. I am also looking in to getting a thermostat for the under the tank heater. I was told that the heat pad would be sufficient for heating. The babies I saw were only a few inches long. They were coiled in their dish just coming back from the reptile show so it is hard to know for sure how big they are.
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 10-27-17, 07:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep-2013
Location: Conyers
Posts: 1,121
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

The purpose of a hide is so that the snake feels "hidden" and comfortable. The clear hide probably needs to be replaced with an opaque object. Also, you will be amazed at how small a hide they may need when they're babies. They like to feel secure, so they coil up in very small places. As nice as the pine root looks, I would remove it at least until you get your snake into a larger enclosure. If those are vent holes along the sides of the tub, I think that you will have a difficult time maintaining the temperatures that you want for your snake. Typically, people use opaque "rubbermaid" type tubs and drill or melt a series of small (3/16 inch) ventilation holes along the sides; perhaps 4 along each end and 8 along the sides. Last of all, what bedding materials will you be using? I prefer SaniChips because they have less dust than Aspen and are easier for spot cleaning when the snake defecates. Have you considered getting a larger container for your new baby? I know that some people feel that larger containers stress out babies, but there is no evidence that this is the case. The only stress they would have is if the owner is "chasing" the snake around the enclosure trying to capture it for some reason. I put my baby BRBs in 24x36x14 inch enclosures when they arrived as babies and they used every bit of their enclosures for exploring etc. Just a thought...
__________________
JSmith
Jim Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-17, 08:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Minkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2014
Location: middle tn
Posts: 4,281
Country:
Send a message via Skype™ to Minkness
Re: Trying to fit things in

The container is fine since hognoses don't require much humidity. However all the stuff in it can go away. Use a loose substrate that they can burrow in and smaller hides. Even a toilet paper role cut in half (long ways) is perfect for a baby hognose. Offer covering type hide which is as simple as dom fake plants laid on their side. The water bowl is fine, if a bit large, and you'll probably find that the hognose will spend most of it's time shoved up under it.

Good luck!
__________________
"THE Reptiholic"

I stopped counting at 30....
Minkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-17, 10:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

I have a 10 gallon tank which is why I wanted a hognose in the first place. The shop said it would be scared in it. I was thinking about using toilet paper rolls for hides. I asked about using them on the shops fb page in a pm message but they didn't answer that question. I have the 10 gallon all cleaned up and ready to fill. I have been reading about heating and I was concerned about that with the little box. I read about heat panels is that a better way to go? Plus I need to get a thermostat. I seem to recall everything loves to go under the water bowl LOL hence why I opted for the heavier ceramic thinking it couldn't go under it. (Something tells me I am dreaming LOL) I also am concerned about the water bowl being to light weight. I have a small feed bowl from my hermit crab set up. I was thinking sani chips. Can they tunnel well in it? Or does it collapse? I have to as cheap as possible no more than about $50 a month on products but I don't want to not set up a good tank. If it takes a few more months to get what I need I will just be patient. Already buying the box and the UTH 1 to 5 gallon size heating pad and not being good enough sets me back. But the animal needs come first. I would rather put it in the 10 gallon. I have no idea how much heat panels cost. I have only ever used the UTH.

This is what I am looking at:
Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1100w, w/ Sensor: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0112967...=36OLPTZ1OB8AA

Two one for each side of the tank. Zoo Med Digital Terrarium Thermometer: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000MD3M...=36OLPTZ1OB8AA

Last edited by Heidyth; 10-27-17 at 10:31 AM.. Reason: adding questions
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-17, 11:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

Thank you for the help Jim Smith and Minkness. I am so excited and so glad I found the forums. I will play with the tank and more photos. My mind is already wondering what I can put in the little tank.
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 10-27-17, 01:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

So here is try number 2. I put both water bowls I am thinking of using. I am just concerned the small one will get dumped and is not big enough if the snake wants to soak for some reason.
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-17, 02:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep-2013
Location: Conyers
Posts: 1,121
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

MUCH better! Add some sort of bedding and a small under the take heat mat with a thermostat and you should be good to go. Your baby shouldn't be able to dump the water bowl until he's much larger. I use plastic Tortilla bowls for water bowls in my BRB's and they work great. Nice and stable, light enough to handle easily when empty, but heavy enough that the snakes never try to tip them over and they are super easy to clean. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/tor...BoC3OsQAvD_BwE

I'm sure that your new Hoggie will do great and bring you years of enjoyment.
__________________
JSmith
Jim Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-17, 03:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

Thanks Jim Nov I will get the heat mat and thermostat. That means by December I will be giving myself a hoggy for the holidays! I happen to have a restaurant supply store down the street so I will take a look at the tortilla bowls. Thanks for the link I could not picture a tortilla bowl and felt silly when I saw it. I also need to get some locks for the screen lid. With a thermostat do I need a thermometer? Will the ones that stick to the side of the tank suffice ? Or should I go with the digital placed at substrate level?
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-17, 07:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2013
Posts: 516
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

To add a little cost to your equipment if you want to thoroughly keep track of things....

A digital thermometer and humidity gauge (the needle analog version is crap) is good for constantly measuring ambient levels and confirming your thermostat. Reptile specific brands are limited in function and overpriced compared to what you can get for basic weather monitoring or your indoor health. Indoor ones may be dirt cheap just to have something at first but you have to be careful not to directly mist them or drop them in dampened bedding. A corn snake knocked down and buried my couple dollar one in damp substrate while digging around his hide. It flicked back on for awhile when dried but then permanently died a month later. While less useful for 1 snake the price of the ones I have now is pretty good. This set starts cheap while you can keep adding sensors if you get more reptiles or want to measure the room and upgrade the base station provided it's the same brand to a higher quality one when I have the money. I have the base station just measuring conditions at my desk for my own bronchitis while the sensors cover geckos and snakes in 4 rooms on 2 levels of the house. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
There are other brands in smaller squares or with a probe cable but it's hard to find probes that also do humidity without having to set something inside. I've stuck some sensors to the back of hides or under the bottom of caves with velcro to read from there without being seen but harder to hide it and get a useful reading somewhere with a tiny baby snake. It's worth it over just putting in a small stick thermometer and the stupid reptile specific brand thermometer with probe I picked up in an emergency while transporting a snake was over $20. It's had a use dropping it through a hole drilled in my transport bin so I don't have to open it to know the overall temp of any reptile contained in there but more expensive to be useful for details of enclosures.


However, I actually bought a temp gun first because it can read every inch of every surface in the enclosure with colubrids or rosy boas that mostly adjust themselves by surfaces. If you want ambient temp you can sometimes find a neutral object that shouldn't be getting residual heat from anything beyond the surrounding air for a fair reading. I use it for random things all the time including that outside the enclosures. Measure the door that isn't near an air vent and I have whatever the air around it is on that level of the room or I was measuring my bee sting on my arm once lol It's slightly more accurate if you adjust it to a specific material but not that much so aside from the fact you have to go manually open the enclosure to get a reading you point and pull the trigger on nearly anything (not water) making them quite useful over the single spot reading of a thermometer. The one in my order links was over a year ago so now says unavailable but they are all pretty identical with some $10 ones in the related items links.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
akane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-17, 10:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

I have been wondering about the temp gun. Would that replace the need for thermometers inside the habitat? I have a small thermometer from a set of thermometer hygrometer cheap set I bout when I had hermit crabs. I have used that thermometer for a few years all over the house. U sed it to make sure where I was making a sourdough bread stater was sitting. I have it sitting in the tank on the bottom glass (no snake in tank) I just wondered how the temp is where I am thinking of keeping the snake. It is staying around 71F. With my lid not having a way to get a probe in. I don't know what to do. I have been meaning to ask about that too. I do like the thought of being able to use a temp gun to read several parts of the tank. I am planning to record all heating temps on both sides of the tank and even over the heat pad under the bedding to make sure the glass is not to hot. I wii also be recording snake weight before feeding and a couple days after it has eaten so I know if it starts loosing weight for some reason. I already have a good scale that I use for baking bread. I actually like recording things even for myself being diabetic... It just gives me a clearer picture of what I can not see.
__________________
Retiles and herps are like potato chips you can't have just 1.
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Old 10-30-17, 07:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec-2002
Location: London
Posts: 3,034
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

A few pointers in addition to what has been mentioned (great info by the way everybody!);

- I would advise using some kind of loose substrate such as aspen or sani chip when the time comes. Your hognose will be more comfortable burrowing and in a tank it's almost a necessity for them in order to feel secure at first. This caters to the fact that a snake is a positively thigmotactic animal, meaning that it will seek contact with objects in order to feel secure. This trait is amplified in burrowing species. You may luck out with an outgoing oddball but don't rely on this luck. Assuming you are getting a hatchling, if you were using a smaller tub I would say paper substrate would work but in a tank I would advise against it for the above reasoning.

- Cover the sides and the back with something. Anything will do. This will increase privacy and security of your snake.

-Temp guns only measure surface temperatures, not ambient temps, so it will not completely eliminate the need for thermometers but it is still a necessity.

-In order to have a hognose feed consistently, you need to achieve an ambient in the low 80's and offer a hot spot in the low 90's, I have always been an advocate of a 10 degree gradient for most temperate and tropical species (82 ambient, 92 hot spot for example is what I like with hognose) but this will vary from keeper to keeper. Before anyone thinks of mentioning it...yes, they do have a very wide range of habitat in the wild and experience much cooler temps then this and they still eat (much less regularly of course) and function...but there are many other factors that are involved between captive versus wild (natural UV, air qualities, habitat and predation factors, wind, dietary differences, all babies surviving in captivity verses only the strongest in the wild...just to name a few) so why not give them constant ideal conditions if we can? Depending on the ambient temps in your house and the type of caging used, you may have to use a bulb/che to achieve these ambient temps as well as using undertank heating for the hot spot. It is something you'll have to play with so it's good you have begun already that way you can work out any bugs.

-As previously mentioned, the dial thermometers and hygrometers are usually junk and highly inaccurate. There are inexpensive digital options that would be better suited for your snake.

- You can easily place the probe for the heat pad on the heat pad outside of the caging but keep in mind doing this may cause fluctuations of a couple degrees depending on how the room ambients fluctuate. Generally you don't want to have a probe inside the cage if you will be using any kind of tape...tape almost always creates a very bad situation eventually where the snake becomes stuck to it somehow.

- Many of us who have been keeping multiple animals for a long time rarely record normal things such as feedings, sheds and weights as we are able to observe and judge when a snake needs food by their behaviour as well as their last BM, but it takes some time to get comfortable doing this. Be very careful to not overanalyze or overthink recording everything at first, as sometimes you can be your own worst enemy. Feedings and sheds and perhaps a monthly weight if you wish should really be all you need to record at most, as well as dating any abnormalities in the case that you needed to see a vet. Some will be very meticulous with their records and will even record BMs...but if you see a poop after feeding everything is fine so I often fail to see the purpose of this specifically. If you do want to weigh more regularly as you are describing, do so only before feeding after the snake has emtied itself and hasn't eaten, doing so the other way will show repeated loss of a few grams simply due to passing said waste and could be a false sign of something wrong for a keeper. Many of us who have been keeping multiple animals for a long time rarely record these things as we are able to observe and judge when a snake needs food by their behaviour as well as their last BM (roughly), but it takes some time to get comfortable doing this. I honestly only weigh my animals every couple of months purely out of curiosity. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...or rather...if it ain't broke, don't drive youself crazy looking for signs that it is.

-Hognose snakes shouldn't soak unless perhaps in a shed. If the snake soaks, you should be concerned. Mites, excessive heat, as well as lack of security (water pacifies a positively thigmotactic animal really well) would all be reasons for a hognose snake to soak. You can use either dish, but the larger one is very big. If you do use the larger one, the weight of the water in it would realistically be enough to stop the snake from dumping it so the rock isn't needed for weight if that was the intention.

- Hognose snake have a reputation of being picky feeders. Usually it's because of a temp drop, sometimes it's stress related... basically almost always husbandry related...but some just stop eating for no reason. Keep in mind that you should only worry if the snake has had sudden extreme weight loss in excess of 15-20% of their body weight. Have patience, don't worry if they miss the odd feeding and just try again at the next scheduled feed, and most importantly, don't handle a snake that isn't eating unless absolutely necessary...and once you get your little one please don't handle it until it has eaten a few times a row in your care.

Hope some of this helps you.

Last edited by Andy_G; 10-30-17 at 07:56 AM..
Andy_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-17, 10:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

Thank you Andy G,
I plan to use a couple inches of sani chips as that is what the reptile store uses and suggests.

I can cover the tank outside with cut up paper bags. I am also thinking of keeping the tank in the bedroom so it feels more secure. I would love having it on the dinning room table that has never been ate at LOL. I live alone but I do constantly walk past the table and I don't want to scare him. How much of the tank should I cover?

Thanks for the temps you keep yours at. I have a note pad with about 10 different specs on it from different care pages. I will get 2 thermometers plus the IR gun.

may have to use a bulb/che to achieve these ambient temps as well as using undertank heating for the hot spot. It is something you'll have to play with.

I will pick up a bulb/ che. What watt/size? I don't know what a CHE is but will research it. I am thinking it is a coil type emitter that screws into a heat light fixture? I would think like a heat bulb it goes out of the tank above it, off to the side? Moving it to create the hot spot. Would I want to lean the branch on the side of the tank on the warm side so it can get as close/far as it wants. I would prefer to not have the light on in the bedroom while sleeping. I keep second shift hours and covered my window in foil to keep the light out. I plan to put some sort of light on the tank for viewing. Thinking about an LED

I will pick up a few digital thermometers.

Thanks for explaining the probe placement on the pad. That makes a lot more sense. I couldn't figure out how to safely get a probe inside the tank that would not involve becoming a nice escape hatch, or damaging the wires.

I started laughing when you said don't over analyze. I have a habit of over analyzing everything. I will calm down and take a deep breath.

I guess hognose don't soak. I thought it might like it. LOL the rock is in there so it can get out of the bowl if it got in. I can use the smaller bowl.

From what I have read I plan to not handle it for a couple weeks to let it adjust. I will feed according to how it is being fed by the shop. I have tongs on my shopping list. I have also read that people put them in a separate container to feed. I have also read about scenting the prey.

Thank you all for all your help. I can't wait to get my lil guy or girl. I will be taking pictures and posting. Plus I am sure to have more questions.
__________________
Retiles and herps are like potato chips you can't have just 1.
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-17, 11:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec-2002
Location: London
Posts: 3,034
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

I completely advise against separate feeding containers but do as you wish and come to your own conclusion as to what will work best for you.
Andy_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-17, 02:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct-2017
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 22
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
I completely advise against separate feeding containers but do as you wish and come to your own conclusion as to what will work best for you.
Thank you. I will not be feeding separate.
__________________
Retiles and herps are like potato chips you can't have just 1.
Heidyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-17, 11:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan-2015
Location: Youngstown
Posts: 813
Country:
Re: Trying to fit things in

Gonna add my two cents in. The water bowl is fine. I've used similar bowls and I've honestly never seen one get spilled. Not sure why, just luck I suppose. The thermostat for a heat mat is definitely important, not to harp but I do like to bring it up.

I would recommend against sani-chips as they really don't offer much to the snake compared to other substrates such as aspen or forest floor cypress mulch bedding which both allow the snake to burrow, and hognoses are big time burrowers. Sani-chips just make it easier to clean out feces, which is important to a shop or breeder that may be keeping many animals, it isn't really that big of a deal until you're getting up there in amount of snakes. They are technically fine, if you already bought them don't feel the need to waste money and go buy something else but if you haven't I'd look into one of those two substrates instead.

Plus sani-chips stick to food items like glue and while it's not likely to cause any harm I'm sure it'll drive you up a wall with worry given that you've said that you over-analyze everything.

When your snake is a baby those little rolls will be fine for hides but something to keep in mind is that you can cut a hole in the side or lid of something like a cream cheese container or small (longer/wider than it is tall) tupperware container then just fill most of the way full with sphagnum moss or even just some substrate to make secure hides. They aren't very sightly but they do get the job done on a budget pretty well.

As far as bulbs and stuff, keep in mind that, particularly when your snake is small it's pretty much gonna be 100% on the ground right on the heat pad and quite frankly it may not be necessary depending on how warm your house is. That and thermostat controlled lights are annoying as crap and if you have a CHE you probably aren't gonna need the heat pad at all because you can just hook that up to a thermostat and run it the same way you would the heat pad.

Hognoses are North American colubrids and do well with a daytime temp around 75-84 Fahrenheit range so you only have to bump the temps by a little bit in most households.

Otherwise congrats on your decision to get a snake and let me know if you have any questions about what I mentioned here.
jjhill001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0