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Old 01-07-03, 12:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think this whole thread missed the point. I think the reason it was posted is because the person didn't want to go and die in some country. I don't blame them. War scares the he11 outta me. As for your saying that their self-serving and that, and that the men back then weren't. That may be the fact for back then but they also didn't have near the weapons they do now and also they didn't know the side effects that war and the weapons can have on a person. I hope that it never comes to anything like war for us. But you also need to realize EVERYONE has their own feeling and thoughts, they may or may not be wrong but NO ONE has the right to say their wrong. And NO ONE has the right to make people feel bad because they don't want to go to war. My grandfather was in WWII and it did NO good to him. I don't blame people for not wanting to go to war. And just because they don't want to does NOT mean they don't love their country.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-07-03, 01:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Well said Rebecca and you did it without country bashing, which is as ignorant as hair color bashing. I know a girl form Poland who thinks Poland is the best country in the world and good for her. I would choose Canada but I am incapable of making an educated decision as I'm sure 99.9% of us are.

I wasn't going to post in this useless thread, which didn't start off useless. Rebecca, however, made me want to praise her well thought out post.

Now, on the subject of war... no thanks. I'll keep my comments to myself

Peace guys.
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Old 01-07-03, 01:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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World War I , World War II were fought in defense when hard evidence was produced that we were in trouble. Pearl Harbor being the catalyst for our involvement in World War II and The Zimmerman Note in World War I along with other things for both of these. the simple fact that Iraq has nuclear weapons and tortures people does not make it so we should go over there and attack. I don't agree with torturing but how about one of these african nations thats stones women to death for adultery. we are not threatening them. plus i just find War asenine. i do not agree with it . if its for defense fine let it be. for independance from a foreign oppressor then i'm for that. but because one has massive weaponry does not give us the right to tell them they are wrong and we are right and we will punish you. I respect that you love your country and served in the marines, a have a good friend in the marines and one in the navy. that is their choice. I do love this country. I don't want to really live anywhere else. i do like it here. but we all have our opinions and my opinion that this particular war that's bound to happen is ridiculous and I won't take part. i won't be drafted. we all have our right to say what we want .as of now anyway. I apologize If i have offended you. it was not my intention.
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Old 01-07-03, 01:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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we have no reason to be in this war i'm not gonna die so bush can make a few bucks like johnson did in vietnam!


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Old 01-07-03, 02:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Them and Us
World War I , World War II were fought in defense when hard evidence was produced that we were in trouble. Pearl Harbor being the catalyst for our involvement in World War II
With this reasoning , we should wait until Saddam uses chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons against us, then we attack. This is unacceptable to me. The kind of damage that can be inflicted by these weapons far out weighs the damage done at Pearl Harbor. And it was this same type of reasoning that lead to the attack in the first place. We sat idly by as the Japanese invaded China and the rest of the South Pacific, inflicting untold millions of casualties. We and the rest of the world are guilty of the same isolationist attitude when it came to the Germans and 6 million Jews lost their lives.

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the simple fact that Iraq has nuclear weapons and tortures people does not make it so we should go over there and attack.
This is true. But it is a well documented fact that he supports terrorism and supports the destruction of the US. Remember, he pays the famillies of Palestinian suicide bombers $25,000.00. He has no fear of using weapons of mass destruction against his own people. Why would he refrain from using them against us?

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I do love this country. I don't want to really live anywhere else. i do like it here. but we all have our opinions and my opinion that this particular war that's bound to happen is ridiculous and I won't take part. i won't be drafted.
Not wanting to be drafted or go fight a war is understandable. I served four years in the Marine Corps and I did not want to go to war either. I dont think the majority of people do.

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we all have our right to say what we want .as of now anyway.
Remember why you have that right and your others. Your rights are covered in the blood of the men and women who fought in the past. Is it right for you to slip across the border to avoid fighting and let others do the fighting, and possibly die? Then to come back when all is said and done and enjoy the same freedoms that those who fought and died lost? Or those that stayed behind and contributed in what ever way, small or large, enjoy? I think not.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin


If you do not want to be drafted, pick up your telephone or write to your congressman and tell him your feelings.

I did not sacrifice four years of my live in the Marine Corps nor have I spent risking the last 5 and half years of my life as a law enforcement officer protecting those who would not stand in the service of this nation if called to. Now I dont mean you have to go fight and die. I personally would not force anyone to do that and I am against the draft being reinstituted. But I would ask everyone to contribute in some way. I just can not stomach anyone who would turn their backs on their own country in time of need.

Just keep in mind, the world as we know it is not a friendly place. With the advancements in technology, it has gotten alot smaller and as such, much more dangerous.

This was not meant as an attack against you but an offer of opposing opinions in an effort to continue this dialogue in a constructive manner.
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Old 01-07-03, 02:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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As far as I know the UN inspectors have found nothing yet...

Thankyou
They have also stated they are only in the very beginning of inspections and it will take much more time before they have a definite answer, one way or the other. Basically they have said it's too soon to tell. They have also reported that there are several problems with Iraq's weapons disclosure given to the UN on 12/07/02. They have also reported 500 artillery shells filled with mustard gas are missing along with other chemical weapons that they had documented prior to their expulsion in 1998. The evidence is mounting and it's not looking good.
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Old 01-07-03, 02:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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With reference to the whole "which country is better?" debate, I'd just like to mention that Canada is a much safer place to live in.. I don't know if anyone here saw Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" documentary (if you haven't, you really, really should), but he showed that Canadians have more guns per household than Americans, yet the gun to murder ratio in Canada is an extremely large amount lower compared to the states. Now to me, I feel that a country in which I can be free, safe, and make my own desicions in is the best one to live in. (make sense?) I don't mean any offence to anybody, but when I go to America I don't have the same comfort level as when I'm in Canada... I haven't experienced anything negative while there myself, but it's a general feeling that I, and many other people I know, have when we go there. And hey, stereotypes and generalizations all start from somewhere right?

As for the war/draft issue, I'm pro-choice so whatever you guys feel is fine by me. People shouldn't take things so personally... tai_pan, it's fine to have your own opinion but just because somebody doesn't feel the same way you do, it doesn't mean they're completely despicable. It seems you live by the old "Everyone's entitled to my opinion" notion.. oh well to each his own, right?

Have a great day guys,
Kate
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Old 01-07-03, 03:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Wow Mikee, WELL SAID!!!!


Mike, (Tai_Pan1)
Most other people do not view war as the all glorious event that you do.
Most see it as sick, brutal and unnessecary.

Until we stop letting men with small weenies rule the world, you wont see an end to it any time soon!

I, for one would never give my life fighting for someone elses set of beliefs and ideals. For my own? Of course! How can you call anyone selfish for this?

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Old 01-07-03, 03:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't think that "anyone" wants to go to war and die. I do think, however, that anyone who "border jumps" to avoid having to fight is a coward. I am sorry, but that is what I think. To anyone that is "sick and tired of this country"....get the hell out!!! No one is forcing you to live here. This is a free country, and you are free to leave it if that is what you want. Go ahead up to Canada and live there, if you like. I don't have to many problems with Canada (yes, I have been there many, many times). I don't agree with some of the policies or laws that are in effect there, but that is their business.

All I can say is that if you have lived your life in this country, enjoyed the freedoms that so many men died to give you, and then you run away when there is a possiblity that you might have to fight too, then go ahead and leave. But, don't come back!!! This country is free because of brave men, not cowards!

Just my 2 cents, take it for what ever you think it is worth.
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Old 01-07-03, 03:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
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the way i mean certain things seems to be taken otherwise by other people. thats understandable as this is the internet. it happens. i'm sure i take things differntly than others mean as well sometimes. so I'm done. a debate can go on forever. this was really supposed to be like a funny haha post. just kidding around. but yeah. back to the herps
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Old 01-07-03, 03:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Right on! Anyone here interested in herps anymore???
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Old 01-07-03, 04:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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LOL
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Old 01-07-03, 05:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I have read all this and hung on every word many of us have through our forebearers given so much to ensure what we have now!"Never has so much been owed to so few by so many" Sir Winston Churchill The youth of today get to see live on tv the true cost of war,they know what lies ahead, were the youth of the past only saw war in still pictures that were sensored this all changed with Viet Nam and live footage. We must draw a line against the darkness no matter the cost not just for ourselves but for all who will take our place in the future.



We must stand as one world one planet united for there to ever be a future.To have come so far and to have learned so little, we cite the struggles of the past and yet we have learned nothing!We can cure deadly disease, grow crops in barren unfurtile lands feeed the starving, house the homeless,and yet we can also kill one another.As much as our humanity got us into this it is only our humanity that will get us out.

"It is said that the future is always born in pain.The history of war is the history of pain.If we are wise what is born of that pain ,matures into the promise of of a better world.because we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past" (J M S)



Peace


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Old 01-07-03, 05:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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-duuuuuhhh... whats a herp?

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Old 01-07-03, 05:29 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Them and Us
the way i mean certain things seems to be taken otherwise by other people. thats understandable as this is the internet. it happens. i'm sure i take things differntly than others mean as well sometimes. so I'm done. a debate can go on forever. this was really supposed to be like a funny haha post. just kidding around. but yeah. back to the herps
Never joke/comment about:

1.Politics. I include patriotism in this.

2. Religion

Nothing fires people up more than these two topics.

Now how about those herps?
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