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Old 04-16-02, 05:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
Dom
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Exclamation Death due to malpractice??

Hello everybody..

As some may remember .. I have treated all my snakes and monitors on flagel for a posible ameoba infestation. The vet (might I add that he is the only vet in Ottawa to be certified with reptiles}did a huge mistake...

He overdosed all my snakes and monitors. ( We had told him the dosage wast too strong but he kept saying you could give 4 times the amount of flagyl and they would not overdose)

On sat. morning, I woke up and saw that all my pythons except my Rock were twictching and head wobbling from left to right. That morning I headed out to my friends place and saw that all the animals treated with the flagyl as well were doing the excact same thing .. after researching, we realized it was an overdose of flagyl.. I am saying we, cause we told the vet that it was an over dosed .. and got confirmations form the autopsies from the dead snakes and fecals.

The only thing we could do was treat the snakes that were having seizures with valium - this was know by 10 pm the same day .. My friend had already lost 2 snakes from the overdose .. the seizures is what killed them ..

My male carpet python had been seizuring quite often .. he seizured at the following time

Sat at 10pm
Sun at 6pm 10pm

mon. at 2am (at 4 am went to vet to get more valium), 8am, (got him checked out again by the vet at 8h30) 10am, 2pm, 6pm, 10 pm

Tues. at 2 am

Needless to say .. I have not sleep in several days.. My carpet died around 4 am today. This is one of my first snake I have ever gotten .. and first reptile I have ever lost. Only to add to this.. I've lost this month my cat after 300$ of vet bills .. my female savanah has a huge burn on her back wich cause a lung bacterial infection .. I doubt she'll make it .. no Idea ... (got her checked out too} .. My burm has mouth rot , my ball had Ri this month .. I had to treat them with baythryl and now this....

I am f*ckan flipping out - especially this one b/c he died due to the overdose.


What do you guys suggest i do??

If a Doctor killed a child by malpractice .. you could sue and you would defenetly win.. If a vet did this to dogs I think same would apply but I think my problems is these are "non-cuddly" animals to the average person.. and are less important...

Second problem .. he overdosed ALL of my collection. My pythons are against the by-laws but my snow bulls and savanahs ar not.. (did I mention my savanah reaction to the overdose is defecating blood)

I am completly broke now .. I spent over 600$ of vet bills this month, my cc is maxed out and my snakes are still overdosing as we speak ..

Can i sue him? Should I go to the vet clinic with the dead snake? Should I go to the vet hospital and get the supervisor number and see where it goes?


Any advise plzz.. I really need your help
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Old 04-16-02, 07:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
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As far as sueing goes.....

I think maybe you should call a lawyer. They'll usually give you advice over the phone and tell you whether they think it's a strong case, (which I think it is) as far as the bylaw thing goes, I'd tell your lawyer about you having animals that are under the by-law, (it's only a bylaw, bylaw infractions aren't a felony, they're the equivalent of a misdemeanor offence) it's better to have your lawyer prepared to deal with it than have someone mention it in court and screw your entire case. I say bawlz to the wall and take 'em out with a malpractice suit.
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Old 04-16-02, 10:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Tx Gorelith .. Ill see what I can do .. weighing my choices right now


As for flagyl, Does any one know what the preper dosage is??? and on what type of interval? If you can proove it too that would help - tx everyone
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Old 04-16-02, 10:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Dom,

I am extremely sorry to hear whats going on.....this is all of our worst nightmares....I'd first suggest to strat taking roles of film of everything u can find that is because of the overdose.
next follow what gorelith said....but take pictures of every animal including the ones at ur friends place...
Goodluck.
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Old 04-16-02, 11:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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:bugout: OMG I am so sorry to hear that. That is awful, I cannot even imagine what you are going through right now. Gorelith and Grant gave some good advice. Please keep us posted, I hope everything begins to get straightened out sooner than later. Hang in there! :groove:
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Old 04-16-02, 04:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm sorry about your losses!

When you posted the dosages last week I didn't think they were right. The proper dosage is 100mg/kg once and then repeated in 2 weeks. As far as I know at that dosage it will kill all ameobas and flagylites. From what I can recall you were giving in around 300 mg/kg every 2-3 days?

Also, you may want to know that if the overdosage of flagyl doesn't kill them right away it is known to cause tumors/growths which will eventually kill the reptile anyways.

Good Luck.........and personally I would be contacting my lawyer. Since the vet dispenced the medication they are responsible for the animals. If you can prove the vet was at fault then I think you could make a case.

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Old 04-16-02, 07:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Corey : The dosage for the extreme cases of an amoeba in an Epidemic proportion is MAXIMUM 300 mg once .. or more with a 14 day interval (that is what i read and the vet told me)

The vet prescribed 250 mg 3 times on a three day interval ..

As for the the tumers and growths???? Are you shure ... 6 out of my 7 Pythons overdosed and my savanah too... Are you telling me that I will loose them too???

Please .. if this is true, if you don't mind, can you show me documentation.. I hope you're wrong .. I really don't need this.

As for the lawer, I have talked to several and if I win, It will be an expensive win ( the lawer said I will win but that It will cost me more than the value of the snake and the emotional damage caused) - My other option is small claims court ..

I have been talking to the supervisor and vet of the animal hospital .. for the first time .. I got a long awaited appology and I should be compensated for the death of My carpet python . althought Its all still in the air. (A new snake won't help but the appology really made all the difference - feels stupid to say but just for that, I would let this whole thing go)

Anyway Plz reply Corey

Tx
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Old 04-16-02, 08:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm really saddened to hear what has happened If you can manage......I'd say to go through with the claim....that vet should pay for his mistake....if he doesn't, it may happen again.....
IMO he should have his right to practice suspended, atleast until he can prove to be competent in providing such service(I know, I'm dreaming)....Sorry means squat.....these people make a tonne of money for taking care of our pets....when they screw up, they should pay!!! It shouldn't be about the money, its the suffering the animal goes through due to their 'mistake'. Alot of peops think an animals life is expendable, I guess its because it suffers less than a human, right? DUH!!
This kind of stuff really ticks me off...I'm sure they're sorry (they certainly don't want a bad rep.)and the cost of one snake is lint out of their pocket! This is a bit of a rant but i really feel bad for your animals and there's no reason this should have happened.
I wish you all the luck with resolving this and I hope your other animals will be o.k.
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Old 04-17-02, 02:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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That is SOOOOOOO sad...

Im so sorry to hear about your loss. That Vet sounds like a real winner if you ask me....cant even give you the right dose....what a shame.idiot.moron.dumbass(words cant describe)

I think you should DEFINATELY hit him below the belt....WHERE IT HURTS!!!!Dont hold back. He is responsible for more than one death for hell sake. Even if it had been only 1 it still does'nt justify the loss of you or your friends pet(s)
Im not meaning to cause an up-roar, but your vet started it by being a moron.(well I dont personally know this guy, but I was just looking up flagyl in one of our med books, and Correy does have the dose right)
But then again, not everyone is perfect, but we all need to pay for our mistakes....and you had no fault in this one, therefore, you should'nt have had to pay...!


Again, Im Sorry to hear it.
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Old 04-17-02, 08:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If you're curious .. I had 9 snakes and one monitor treated .. 6 snakes over dosed and one monitor and one of my snakes died .. as for my friend .. He had over 60 snakes treated and about90% of them overdosed .. He lost 8 snakes so far .. and some that are rare and expensive and there was even a gravid Hog Island boa too ..

So far I have decided to take the calm way .. I have talked to a couple of lawyer and for me - If I win (AND I WOULD) it would be an expensive win. Meaning that It would cost me more than the value Id be getting for the snakes .. Hence not worth my time..

Different story for my friend though - don't know what he will do??

But I did talk to the supervisor and the vet in question .. supervisor covered his *** by putting the blamed on my friend as the one who prescribed the dosage (Why would a vet take the advice of someone with no qualifications????) but the vet called me personally and told me how he felt like **** and he was so sorry about how he past away adn that he was the one who had made the doage..

I told Him I really aprreciated the apology but that all in all , I have a snake who died that was perfectly healthy in the first place .. I asked him to be either compensated by an other snake or the monatary value of an other one .. (he said He believed it would not be a problem ..


It does not bring him back but the appology made the world of a difference .. its enough for me to drop the whole thing and move on.

Its all still in the air .. i will keep you guys posted ..

(btw - I still have 5 snakes overdosing but I do believe they will all pull throught)

Tx everyone

Dom
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Old 04-17-02, 12:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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this is a picture out of a book, the reproductive husbandry of pythons and boas. this is exactly what it says under the photo A Timor python with an abdominal mass simulating mature ovarian follicles.This snake was found to have an adenocarcinoma(malignant tumor)of the colon. It had been treated with metronidazole (Flagyl), an amebicide known to produce malignant tumors in mice. During a program to eradicate amebiasis at the IHR using this medication,three pythons developed these tumors.

i hope this helps if you need more info you should try to get your hands on this book, its old but has alot of good information in it
Joe & Melissa Burch
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Old 04-17-02, 01:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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a very good book indeed......
Everyone should have it!
very informative.
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Old 04-17-02, 03:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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About the tumors

I talked to 2 vets and they have told me that this is an extremelly rare case .. but that the possibillity is there. Obviously, with high doses the chances are greater. Is this accurate?

Does anyone have any other documentation .. anything helps ..

Tx so Much Joe and Mellisa .. its greatly apreciated
I am looking for that book right now!
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Old 04-17-02, 04:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I will look on my end for more references to the tumors. I do know (if memory serves) that Flagyl is safe to use if given in the correct dosages. It can pose a problem if overdosed or given to freakwently (suck has worming every 2 months...etc).

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Old 04-17-02, 05:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i have referenced a few books, and they say that metronidazole(flagyl) should be given oraly at a dose of 60-125mg/kg, i have used flagyl in this range and have had no ill efects, but i agree with corey, im sure i have read it somewhere also that all side effects are over prolonged use
i wish you luck, keep me posted
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