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Old 10-04-04, 09:00 PM   #76 (permalink)
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First, When I had a bp I fed mice alive for about 5 feedings then I got so freakin scared that my snake was gonna get killed or injured for a $1.00 mouse I just started buying f/t. What id have to say is u learn from ur mistake and ur case spent 1200. But for a $200 or so snake I would have just froze him not to sound like a coal hearted B**** or anything but it just wouldnt be worth it to me but then again I havent been in your shoes so I dont know what I would have done. I think your being Very hard on him and you have rideculed him enough for his dumb mistake. personally I think all snakes should go back to the wild and live there if there wasnt the destruction of forests and other habitats. Forums are not for pissing around about mistakes and comparing what u do and what other people do. He just asked if u could tell him what to do not to bug him about it.

Thats all i have to say!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-04-04, 09:15 PM   #77 (permalink)
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some people just never learn.....poor snake..i hope you never do that ever again!
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Old 10-04-04, 09:32 PM   #78 (permalink)
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You're right Vanan... my point isn't getting across this way, so I apologize. Not because I think I'm wrong in this, and I'm sure as hell not going to apologize for how passionate I am about the issue, but because I got way too fired up on a public forum... again. Yeah, bad habit. I'm man enough to say sorry for how this came across, though. Time to move on.
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Old 10-04-04, 09:36 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
First, When I had a bp I fed mice alive for about 5 feedings then I got so freakin scared that my snake was gonna get killed or injured for a $1.00 mouse I just started buying f/t. What id have to say is u learn from ur mistake and ur case spent 1200. But for a $200 or so snake I would have just froze him not to sound like a coal hearted B**** or anything but it just wouldnt be worth it to me
Someone do us all a favour and shut down this thread before it just completely explodes!!
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Old 10-04-04, 10:11 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Ken; no offense, 4 pages too late.

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here, why not, can't be more ignorant or rude than some of the posts here already... I feed live. More than half of my snakes eat live, and I'm going to keep it that way. My personal collection will continue to eat live as long as I'm the one feeding them. I've fed well over 1500 live rats and not ONCE have I had an issue that required my intervention. Go ahead, "you're putting your animals life in danger", "Have you tried everything else before resorting to live?" or the less tactful, "Are you just an idiot?". If you're going to feed live, you have to be responsible about it: 1. If you're snake doesn't take the meal in under an hour, you're looking for trouble if you leave the food item in there. 2. Supervise, supervise, supervise. It's funny to see people who own 50 corns and garters saying there is NO REASON to feed live. True for you. Balls: they ALL will not take f/k or f/t, and if you think they will, you probably own one or two. Consider yourself lucky. Most people who own 'a few' balls know that you are nowhere near as knowledgeable as you intend to come across. As for the big breeders doing it, it's a FACT. Injuries happen, Corey was big enough to actually admit to two. I've actually received advice from two BIG breeders of balls how to feed live. Will they admit to it openly every chance they get? Hope not, because there will always be one idiot who doesn't know when to shut his/her mouth, and feels that by talking louder and longer, that their point is more valid than anyone elses. I've said too much, I don't feel the need to be that person. Gotta go feed my big, healthy, beautiful balls....
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Old 10-04-04, 11:00 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Tomorrow I have to go out of state for a few days (be back Thursday night). I'll have someone looking over the snake. If you guys want I can post pictures (once a week) on the progress of the healing so that perhaps if you notice something wrong you can tell me and I can take it to the vet asap (I dont have any experience in judging if a snake wound has taken a turn for the worse or not). Hopefully if all is well the snake will not need an early visit (next appoint due in 3 weeks). Thank you for your replies, I have put them into consideration.
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Old 10-04-04, 11:27 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Yep i feed FT and fed live but i WATCHED ppl like you probably own pittbulls or rotts and make the breed bad as well, this makes me sick and not afraid to say so, there is a saying, "idiots shouldn't be allowed to breed" should of put your snake down hope it gets infected and you go through hell like it did, hope hell for you never ends.
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Old 10-05-04, 12:09 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Mykee - I never called you or anyone else here an idiot. I assume you're referring to me when you say "there will always be one idiot who doesn't know when to shut his/her mouth, and feels that by talking louder and longer, that their point is more valid than anyone elses." Sorry you feel that way. I think you're a great guy, but I do not and will never agree with feeding live if the snake will otherwise take prekilled. I've said at least twice in this thread that I KNOW BPs don't always take FT food, and that if it has to be done, it has to be done. The reason I started huffing and puffing is because it was not BPs in this case - it was boas. I've NEVER known a boa to not take F/T food. Ever. Wild caught or otherwise. You and Corey are defending live feeding because you have BPs - and I understand that, believe me. it's common knowledge how stubborn they can be. But as you said, someone who has 50 corns, or even in this case, 2 boas, has NO EXCUSE. So this debate was never about you OR Corey OR any BP owner. I understand the grief BP owners go through, I used to have 2. I traded them because I had no desire to work with normals anymore, PLUS I had no time to supervise live feedings. But, I'm just an idiot, so what do I know. I'm going to go tend to my injury-free snakes that are 100% guaranteed to remain so now.
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Old 10-05-04, 02:44 AM   #84 (permalink)
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There's a RIGHT way to feed live and a WRONG way to feed live. Let me give you a hint; leaving the rat in the cage unattended with no food or nothing to do but chew on a snake in a gladiator-style cage is the WRONG way to feed live.


And boas have an INSANE feeding response. They should never really need to be fed live rodents except rat pinks/fuzzies shortly after they are born.
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Old 10-05-04, 04:57 AM   #85 (permalink)
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First of all, frozen/thawed rodents have less vitamin C than live or prekilled. I just wanted to put this out there since it hasn't been mentioned yet.

However, live rodents that haven't fed for several hours are just as deficient in vitamin C. The vitamin C has to do with some digestive process if I remember correctly from the article I read.

So, first and foremost, I think everyone can agree that you should NEVER feed a snake unattended for several hours; that's just obvious.

Prekilled should be everyone's first choice. However, I am totally against whacking a rodent through blunt force. There are proven studies that using carbon dioxide to kill rodents is humane. However, I have yet to see a proven study that whacking a rodent is more humane than having it constricted by a snake. Just because it's quicker doesn't necessarily mean it's more humane. Not to mention, there's always the chance that blunt trauma does not kill the rodent immediately, in which case it will be in SEVERE pain for more than an instant.

In any event, if it is reasonable (i.e. small enough collection, access to humane methods) to feed pre-killed, one definitely should.

To the guy who only has 2 boas and feeds them live, you should at least try prekilled first. It's not exactly expensive to setup your own CO2 chamber, and it's unfair to put rodents through suffering if you have the time and the means to do otherwise. Also, although I personally feel that the risk of a snake coming to harm is very low, there is no reason to subject them to this risk at all if you have the time and means to feed pre-killed. If you give prekilled a good shot and it doesn't work, you'll have good reason to stick to live. There ARE reasons to feed live, and those who do so carefully and responsibly are perfectly justified to do so. However, those who feed live for NO reason fully deserve to get crapped on.
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Old 10-05-04, 07:37 AM   #86 (permalink)
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I' fascinated by this thread. I have a Durango Mtn. King I got as an earthworm from PCPC, he was very small, and after many attempts with scenting pinkies, he finally began to eat. It will not eat dead prey, or go for dangled prey. I am worried about injury as well, so I just feed him multiple rat fuzzies as oppossed to live mice. Am I hurting the snake somehow. I thought this was a good solution, and after reading this post, I see it just maybe.
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Old 10-05-04, 09:19 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Diggy415, We have punished this guy enough for the dumb mistake he made and on top of that he has to pay $1200 for a $3.00 meal. We all make mistakes and the mistakes can be costly! I hope the snake gets better but you hope it gets an infection and he will have to go through hell again...... I think this kind of mistake happened to you one time and everyone scolded you so now you just wanna scold somone for there mistake.

Just my thought
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Old 10-05-04, 09:43 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Thats a pretty crappy thing to say, diggy. You want the snake to suffer more because of a mistake made by the owner? I hope your not as heartless when it comes to your own animals.
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Old 10-05-04, 09:51 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Originally posted by hhw
Prekilled should be everyone's first choice. However, I am totally against whacking a rodent through blunt force. There are proven studies that using carbon dioxide to kill rodents is humane. However, I have yet to see a proven study that whacking a rodent is more humane than having it constricted by a snake. Just because it's quicker doesn't necessarily mean it's more humane. Not to mention, there's always the chance that blunt trauma does not kill the rodent immediately, in which case it will be in SEVERE pain for more than an instant.
I usually prefer to feed prekilled as well, but will freeze when I get an overflow of rodents. People always make the arguement that parasites are a serious risk, when in fact the parasites that are commonly found in rodents are host-specific, and will not be able to attach to the reptile and set up camp.

I personally employ the wacking method for any of the larger rodents (I use cervical dislocation or brain destruction for the smaller ones). I always hit them three times consecutively hard and fast (none of that checking to see if it's dead) in the event I do miss a hit. I believe definitely it is more humane. Anything that is meant to be instantaneous is automatically more humane than something that can take minutes. How many rats do youhear screaming while they are contricted versus those that scream when they are wacked? I've killed zillions of rodents and never heard a single sound. Additionally, even if they just get seriously messed up on the blow... they likely will not be suffering. I know from several accidents I have had in the past, when something hits you so fast, you don't even know or feel the pain. Your body has the amazing ability to instantaneously send out chemicals to act on defense at the moment of serious trauma. Your pain receptors don't even have a chance to react.

Quote:
Originally posted by mykee
I've fed well over 1500 live rats and not ONCE have I had an issue that required my intervention. Go ahead, "you're putting your animals life in danger", "Have you tried everything else before resorting to live?" or the less tactful, "Are you just an idiot?". If you're going to feed live, you have to be responsible about it: 1. If you're snake doesn't take the meal in under an hour, you're looking for trouble if you leave the food item in there. 2. Supervise, supervise, supervise. It's funny to see people who own 50 corns and garters saying there is NO REASON to feed live.
Feeding live definitely has it's place in feeding captive reptiles, but all efforts *should* be made to have them switched to dead. I've also worked with and had/have in my own collection, animals that would only take live, and I have had instances where I needed to intervene, whether something superficial as nails scratching furiously, or more severe as a bite. If you cannot properly supervise live feedings, then they *shouldn't* be done, but many breeders seem to forget or ignore the fact that animals are also living creatures whose lives have been entrusted with us, rather than just simple commodities.
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Old 10-05-04, 11:11 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Linds
Feeding live definitely has it's place in feeding captive reptiles, but all efforts *should* be made to have them switched to dead. I've also worked with and had/have in my own collection, animals that would only take live, and I have had instances where I needed to intervene, whether something superficial as nails scratching furiously, or more severe as a bite. If you cannot properly supervise live feedings, then they *shouldn't* be done, but many breeders seem to forget or ignore the fact that animals are also living creatures whose lives have been entrusted with us, rather than just simple commodities.
Wow,

Excellent post
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