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Old 08-23-04, 01:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I know we pay less rent, I'm pretty certain we pay less for food (you may get bigger portions for fast food in the US, but that's about it), and I think we pay about the same for fuel (cheaper in Canada right at the moment, or last week anyway), not to mention many more Americans commute long distances and/or do much more highway driving resulting in much more fuel used. Insurance also costs an arm and a leg in the US, whereas our health care is included (as you mentioned) and our auto insurance is a fraction of the price without even looking at currency exchange. Electricity and other energy is also much more abundant in Canada, and is also less expensive. All in all, it's much more affordable to live in Canada.

As for contracts not to breed, I seriously doubt too many people pay much money for anything high end without intentions to breed so I can't see that happening anytime soon, if ever.
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Old 08-23-04, 01:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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and found out it was a children and it was wc not cb and i paid alot of money for it.
How did you find out it was WC? There has been a band on exporting wild life from Aussie for years.
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Old 08-23-04, 02:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Linds
Really? We've always had show dogs, and anytime we've purchased them the contract has been the same - we cannot spay/neuter the animal, but can only breed it to an animal approved by the breeder. I thought all show dogs were supposed to remain intact, unless they were poor examples of the breed.
Linds, you are right. Show-quality animals can not be sexually altered, otherwise they are forbidden at shows. You can also buy breeding-quality animals that are not show animals (choice of the breeder, however the offspring is worth more if they have titles). Pet-quality is (generally) always on a spay/neuter contract.

This is all semi-new to me, as I am investing in 2 purebred boxers, hopefully to breed when they are older. The rules are immense! As for other animals, I breed hairless rats that I sell with pedigrees, but only a few will have breeding rights. Now, I can't control if the buyer will or won't breed them, but I hope that they will take the time to investigate the pros and cons

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Old 08-23-04, 03:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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well BoidKeeper i took it to my vet. Dr. Markus Luckwaldt
at Amherst Veterinary hospital and he told me it was .it cost me 150 for the snake and 100 for the vet bill .well live and learn.life go's on in the snake world.lol
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Old 08-23-04, 03:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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LOL, how could a Vet know if it's WC or CB?
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Old 08-23-04, 03:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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because he's is one of the top herp vet's in canada.that's how lol.
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Old 08-23-04, 03:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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As for cheap people, I don't know why some people are so cheap. One of my best buddies is REALLY cheap and it bugs the H#LL out of me! lol There is nothing wrong with trying to spend less money but it is usually true that "you get what you pay for".

I would be kind of offended if someone offered me considerably less for an animal if I didn't know them at all. But the "why animals are priced a certain way" debate has a lot to do with that, as does the "people selling for less than others" debate...IMO.

In my mind, if I want an albino ball python but don't have the $3500 (or whatever the going rate may be), then I can't afford that snake. I wouldn't offer the breeder $2500 or even $3000. I might haggle a bit but not by more than 10%. Most of the time, I pay asking price and that's that. I try to live by the "do unto others..." cliché with respect to buying things.
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Old 08-23-04, 03:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally posted by lizlady
because he's is one of the top herp vet's in canada.that's how lol.
And does he have some sort of magical X-ray gun to see inside the snake and tell where it was born?

I admit, based on condition and behavior, you can sometimes tell WC from CB but it can go both ways. CB animals can be mistreated and end up in just a poor conditions as some WC animals. It's a guess at best.
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Old 08-23-04, 03:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I am most certain that that python is not wc the export ban has been in effect since the 70's and has been updated and added to since implementation do a search on one of the search engines for the export ban in Australia and what it covers, find a detailed one print it and give it to your vet to read over.


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Old 08-23-04, 03:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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WOW, i want to live in BC! If your gas is cheaper than in the states, you are LUCKY. Even with conversion, we are paying over $2.30 a GALLON here in ontario and have for years, and people from the US gripe when it goes over $2.00 a gallon there.

Our cost of living might be less, but as someone else mentioned, we get taxed up the A$S, so we end up making a hellofalot less money.

As for the question about animals, we pay a LOT more for most reptiles up here in Canada simply because if numbers. We do not have the same access to captive bred animals and have to pay more for what we want.

We complain not because we are cheap, but cuz we SEE what the prices are like in the states. I mean really, $300 US for a granite burm..... $600 US for a WOMA!!!! Of course they will sell at those kinda prices, and if we are lucky, buy them if we can get them over the border legit.

The daytona show was the most amazing experience, but it also made it harder to come back home and pay twice as much for the same reptile.

Everything I said refers to captive bred of corse, is there anything else worth owning?

Just my thoughts on this anyway

Jessy

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Old 08-23-04, 03:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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From the Sunday Mail (Adelaide, Australia) 31st May 1998


Fauna export bans to lift


Canberra: The export of Australian Wildlife is expected to be made legal.

A senate committee is set to next month recommend lifting a 30 year old ban on wildlife exports following the failure of anti-smuggling laws to stop the lucrative trade.

In the export firing line are kangaroos, dingoes, possums, snakes and lizards, and sulphur crested cockatoos.

Experts predict a legalised wildlife trade could be worth millions of dollars to Australia.

But angry conservation groups warn Australian natives are unsuitable as pets and could die overseas.

"Many of these animals need specialist care and they would be away from their natural environment," an animal Liberation spokesman said.

Animal welfare groups say Australia must continue to fight the illegal trade, estimated to be worth $400 million a year.

The Woodley committee into commercialization of Australian native wildlife will present its findings on June 23.

However, committee sources said it would bring down a near unanimous recommendation to change Federal wildlife protection Laws.

This would pave the way for farmers and commercial operators to breed and sell wildlife overseas.
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Old 08-23-04, 04:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Here it is from the aussie gov web site a bit long but a good read and helps keep us informed




CHAPTER 3 - CURRENT REGULATIONS AND POLICY
Introduction
3.1 Under Section 92 of the Australian Constitution, trade in fauna within Australia cannot be prevented. However, the control of wildlife use, both commercially and non-commercially, can be regulated and power to do this is vested in both Federal and state legislatures. Each state and territory has legislation which controls the keeping and movement of wildlife, and regulations which govern regional and local conditions such as farm practice, cull quotas, and provision of products for the domestic market.

3.2 However, while most regulations concerning commercial use of wildlife lie within the ambit of state government control, the Federal government plays an important role in some areas (such as production processes, post-marketing and industry development) [1] and, critically, in the control of exports. [2] Thus regardless what each state government does, because exports are controlled by the Federal government and because the economic development of wildlife industries depends to a large extent on obtaining overseas markets, ultimate control primarily lies with the Federal government.

3.3 Control of actions relating to the environment in Australia and in particular actions relating to wildlife, occurs at the Federal level through a suite of over 30 pieces of legislation. The statute most relevant to this inquiry is the Wildlife Protection (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1982 which controls the export of all wildlife and wildlife products from Australia and into Australia.

Federal Legislation
Wildlife Protection (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1982
3.4 The Wildlife Protection (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1982 is the legislative basis for Federal control over the export and import of wildlife and wildlife products. Controls under the Act apply to all relevant transactions by museums, zoos, scientific institutions, commercial organisations, tourists, migrants and the general public. 'Wildlife' is not defined in the Act but is usually interpreted in its broadest sense and refers to all animals and plants subject to regulations under the Act. The terms 'animal' and 'plant' are defined.

3.5 The two main objectives of the Act are: (1) to put into legislative framework Australia's obligations under the international Convention on Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) which was signed in Washington on 3 March 1973; and (2) to further the protection and conservation of the wild fauna and flora of Australia and of other countries through the regulation of export and import of plants (and plant parts) and animals (and animal parts).

3.6 The administration of the Act is primarily undertaken by the Wildlife Protection Section of Environment Australia. [3] The assessment of applications for approved management programs (section 10 of the Act) and controlled specimens (section 10A of the Act) is undertaken by the Wildlife Population Assessment Section of Environment Australia. Enforcement of the Act is undertaken primarily by the Australian Customs Service with whom the Wildlife Protection Section works in close cooperation. Enforcement is also assisted by the Australian Federal Police. Disputed decisions are subject to review by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. The Act also provides for exemptions of certain specimens used by traditional inhabitants (Australian Aboriginal people, Torres Strait Islanders and Papua New Guineans).

3.7 The Act provides for permits or authorities to be issued for a variety of purposes and specifies the criteria which must be met before they can be granted. Any application to export a live specimen must be approved via a permit and the Act lists the conditions which must be satisfied before the Minister can issue a permit. Permits to export live native Australian animals may be granted only in four types of circumstances:

the commercial export of live invertebrates and freshwater fish which have been bred in captivity or taken under an approved management program;
the export of certain species of live native birds as household pets (listed in Schedule 7 of the Act), by persons that have met specific criteria;
transactions involving a scientific institution where the institution is primarily non-commercial, has demonstrated the capacity to undertake the proposed research, makes the results of such research publicly available; and
transfers between publicly owned Australian and overseas zoos is permitted provided the zoos can demonstrate they have a high standard of management, animal husbandry and accommodation and have the facilities and expertise to properly care for the animals being sought.
3.8 Because these conditions do not include any provision for a private individual or company to export live specimens for commercial purposes, this activity is by default prohibited.

3.9 Section 10 of the Act regulates wild harvested specimens (that is, products obtained from native wildlife). [4] Specimens may be harvested under a Management Program or as a Controlled Specimen. A Management Program or Controlled Specimen Program may not be declared unless legislation relating to the protection, conservation or management of the animals or plants is in force in the state or territory [5] and, in the opinion of the Minister, the legislation is effective. This requirement can, in special circumstances, be waived for Controlled Specimens.

3.10 The major difference between the two arrangements are that in Management Programs the Minister must be `satisfied' about a number of criteria in making a decision, while under Controlled Specimens similar criteria must be `taken into account' when making a decision. Management Programs are generally required for larger, more established harvesting proposals, while Controlled Specimen declarations are used for smaller, start up operations where there is often less information on the biology and ecology of the species in question. The Act provides for Management Programs to be declared where there is sufficient information available on the biology of the species proposed for harvesting to ensure that it will not be to the irreversible detriment of the species or its habitat. Management Programs are usually administered by state government agencies and reflect state-wide management for the particular species concerned. The criteria for a Management Program are listed in Appendix IV of this report. The Act provides an opportunity for public consultation on proposed Management Programs and Controlled Specimens and concerned persons are invited, by annual public notice, to register their interest in receiving copies of proposals for comment before the programs are approved and declared.

3.11 The Controlled Specimens provision allows for commercial harvesting and trade, under strict conditions, where it would be inappropriate to insist on a Management Program and where it is consistent with the object of the Act not to declare an Approved Management Program. Such circumstances might include short-term salvage harvesting, small scale harvesting of common species, the developmental stages of Management Programs and the importation of CITES listed species from overseas. All harvesting proposals are currently assessed in accordance with the principles of ecological sustainability and conservation of biological diversity. The criteria for a Controlled Specimen are also listed in Appendix IV of this report.

3.12 Since coming into effect in May 1984, there have been three major amendments to the Wildlife Protection (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1982. [6] In addition, about every two years, Schedules 1 and 2 are amended to reflect changes to Appendices I and II of CITES.
here is the link to the page
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...report/c03.htm

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Old 08-23-04, 04:11 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I dont think that our market is as "Cheap" as some might think. If you look at k i n g s n a k e .com alot of the animals on there are fairly priced not saying that there isnt the odd low ball but there is nowhere the range there is on our site. Kingsnake classifieds costs money to advertise so the majority of people on there are serious breeders then you turn around and come here and you see leopards for 10 and dragons for 20 because its a bunch of people who breed only to make a quick hundred bucks and dump them all on here for dirt cheap. if it costed money to post it would help establish the serious Breeders from the Quick cash breeders I mean if you look at a 15 year old kid who has 2 dragons and he can sell 20 dragons make his 400 bucks and probably does not have to pay hydro or maybe even for his own crickets and such because his parents do, hes happy as a fly in ****. However if a
serious breeder who bred many of dragons was to do that they would make almost no money and it would become very difficult for the serious breeders to keep good bloodlines and such within thereptile community.
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Old 08-23-04, 04:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I agree....with u.

Cya...

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Old 08-23-04, 04:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks Tony. Oh I think I remember the details of the albino het deal.lol
Hip,
Well what can I say buddy, I rest my case.
Cheers,
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