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Old 08-14-04, 04:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Just Curious...

Stemming from a combination of boredom and curiosity, I decided to start up this thread for interesting conversation. I am continually seeing people making comments in regards to using the internet, particularly an internet forum, to obtain information in regards to the husbandry of their reptiles. The majority of these comments are negative ones Ė declaring people whom use such resources as lazy, or thought of as being too cheap to purchase a book. Myself personally, I obtain my information through texts, such as books, the internet and directly from experienced individuals whom are familiar with the information I am seeking.

My question is, why is using such a resource as an internet forum negative, and how does it make a person lazy? If this is the case, why do we have and offer such resources? To me, there is no better reserve then an internet forum packed with experienced individuals whom are willing to provide their knowledge and experience with newer herpers, or those not familiar with a particular genre or species. I see this forum as an invaluable tool, what better way to obtain oneís information then from people who have direct, indispensable experience. Sure, there are the instances in which an inexperienced individual posts inexperienced, and often false and misleading information. However it is our expectation and responsibility to cherry pick our sources for information, and not rely on a single individualís opinion for a final consensus. After all, there are several outdated books with deceptive information out there for purchase, just as there are those providing erroneous information through internet forums.

To me, such a resource as an internet forum is the way of the future Ė quick and easily accessible information. Do not get me wrong, having books around for quick reference are definitely an indispensable attribute to anyoneís collection, however I see nothing wrong with using a forum (or internet as a whole) as long as you do not limit this to your only source for information.
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Old 08-14-04, 05:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Its really funny. The people making the negative comments are themselves contributing the the "laziness" of everyone else. Often, they themselves are helping users with problems that have arrisen.

My views are the same as yours David. Books are definitly an important part of any collection, but whenit comes down to it, there isn't a better source of information than experianced people who have encountered the same problems as you are experiancing.

Jason
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Old 08-14-04, 05:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I only think people who are on line are lazy when they expect us to do it all for them and they don't bother reading the simplest of care sheets on their own first before they ask what temp their boa should be.
I've said it before and I'll say it againl; Ask me a question about the instructions, don't ask me to read you the instructions.
So IMO the only lazy people on line are the same ones in our schools and work places, they are the ones that expect other people to do their work for them. Everyone is a newbie at least once and I won't forget that but no one held my hand for me along the way, nor do they now as I continue to learn every day. I have no intentions of holding anyone else hand either. If someone doesn't know how to learn I'd rather teach them how to rather than learn for them. People have to be taught to do for them selves rather than have people do things for them. You know what they say; "Fish for someone and they can feed themselves for a day. Teach them to fish and they can feed themselves for a life time."
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Old 08-17-04, 10:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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So is no one going to touch this one or what?
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Old 08-17-04, 11:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I still remember that when I got my first snake, I had not even heard of an internet forum... and had no idea that I should research how to care for a snake. Of course, after joining the site I have learned otherwise.

I had no books or anything (granted it was a cornsnake so it was pretty easy to find info!) but my first post was amazing! I asked multiple questions and got great answers to even the most simple questions! No one was hard on me and it is what hooked me on this site... and on internet forums.

I think that when someone asks even the simplist questions, we should be willing to give them advice and answers... and then point them in the general direction of other research.

If someone picked up a cornsnake on a whim, should the snake suffer because the person cannot get much info until the book on corns arrives in a week that they ordered from amazon.com?

Also, as much as there are many great caresheets out there, some people are quite computer illiterate, and finding many (or even a few) could possibly be more than they can handle.

Finally, what if the only qustions that they have could be answered quicker by stating the answer than by ridiculing? Why take the longer answer which in turn is less effective?

Here is the post that I first made on the site: My first snake ever, a few ?s

Read how helpful everyone was to me!!!
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Old 08-17-04, 11:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What's the saying? Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime?

I think that's the issue here... people need to stop asking for fish and start asking how to fish.
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Old 08-17-04, 11:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hmmm, I'm surprised more people havenít joined in on this one. I have to agree forums such as this one can be VERY helpful, it always helps too have access to someone who has experience too help you understand the information you read else where or even too verify it through there own personal experiences. but the problem is that fact many people try to use it as an easy way around things. I would generally have too agree with Trevor 100% on this one. There are too many people out there expecting everybody too do things for them. Everybodyís has too start somewhere but they should start on there own learning everything they can and then turn to others who have more experience in order to add to what they've learned. But there are lazy people who donít bother too learn on there own and expect others too do everything for them. Unfortunately there are people like that everywhere. And the worst part is that since the lazy people donít bother too do there own research they believe anything thatís told too them , for example all those people who heard somebody say a boa wont outgrow its tank, or that its fine too just feed a burm less too keep it small. And practice these ridiculous things on there own animals simply because they were too lazy too pic up a book and read.
I think thatís what separates what I would consider a "herper" and a person trying too look cool with his snake. A herper in my opinion is someone who learns about reptiles and keeps some of his favorites that he has learned about too take that learning too another level. The others are the opposite, they own a reptile because it fascinates others and they donít bother too learn about it because they arenít truly interested in the reptile but more on the attention it brings with it.


Its very true that nothing beats experience for some matters, but for basics there is no excuse except laziness when you just type in your question rather then take the time too read a book with the answers your looking for.

Devon
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Old 08-17-04, 11:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Its not lazy to use the internet to find information. Its LAZY to get OTHER people to use the internet FOR THEM to find the information they want. These tend to be the same people that look up the husbandry of the animal in question AFTER the buy it.
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Old 08-18-04, 12:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If someone picked up a cornsnake on a whim, should the snake suffer because the person cannot get much info until the book on corns arrives in a week that they ordered from amazon.com?
Well in that case there is no excuse, there is never an excuse for an impulse purchase. You should always do every bit of research before hand, and have everything prepared to a T.
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Old 08-18-04, 01:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I personally find it slightly annoying that a person does not do a google search for a basic care sheet. Although it can be tough to find good info out there especially if it's a rarer type of lizard. But then agian if it's a rarer type of lizard then they should know that right, and there for would know how to care for the most basic things . . . anyway that's a WHOLE other topic.Back to my point, I don't mind helping even if they have not done any searching on their own at least they have come here to ask experienced (sp?) people so their new pet/friend does not suffer. Anyway my whole point is that I would rather answer a basic question and know that they have the right info then tell them they are lazy and then have them go off and find a bad care sheet with it all wrong.
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Old 08-18-04, 08:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Well in that case there is no excuse, there is never an excuse for an impulse purchase. You should always do every bit of research before hand, and have everything prepared to a T.
I agree 100%, but what about the kid who goes into the petstore to buy dogfood for his puppy and comes home with the snake... of course he is not prepared... no one ever told him to be (do you think that the person at the petstore ever told him to research first?)

All that I'm saying is that as much as people need to learn on their own, it is also nice to be welcomed when you are new to the hobby.

If you see that its a most basic question, and their first or second post... you can most likely assume that they are new to the hobby, and chastising them will only turn them away.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if this person has either been keeping certain animals for awhile, or is already aware of all the info on the net, then it is being LAZY... but how can you tell which is which?

When I bought my first snake I had no idea how many people kept snakes, and in such quantities! I thought that it would be hard to find others with the same interest. Then, a friend informed me of ssnakess and I decided to check it out. That was the best thing that I've found online yet!

Brent Strande

PS It is still fine to let people know that they need to do their research, but by providing the correct info as well, we may be retaining a future outstanding member!

AND BY POSTING "RESEARCH" INSTEAD OF A MORE HELPFUL ANSWER, AREN'T WE BEING JUST AS LAZY???
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Old 08-18-04, 11:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I personally find it slightly annoying that a person does not do a google search for a basic care sheet.
If you find that annoying, what in the world is the point of this forum? To post pictures of our snakes and lizards? Sure, thats what reason - but it definitely isn't the only one. The whole intention of the forum is an information research from my point of view.

What you also have to keep in mind is that not everyone knows there are books out there which describe the husbandry of specific species.

Quote:
ON THE OTHER HAND, if this person has either been keeping certain animals for awhile, or is already aware of all the info on the net, then it is being LAZY... but how can you tell which is which?
That may be true, however I personally would like to obtain information from someone I have seen on the forum for a while and who is a known, experienced individual then trusting a geocities caresheet.

I am thinking back to when I got my first ball python. I had done my research months ahead of time. Thinking about it now, what I would consider lazy is coming here blindly with absolutely no effort put fourth on obtaining information, and using the forum as your only source. It is perfectly fine to do your research, then come here with questions to confirm facts you have read, or to obtain peices of information which you couldn't locate, and finally to get opinions on your husbandry. Thats what I will conclude at.

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Old 08-18-04, 02:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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What's husbandry?
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Old 08-18-04, 03:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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In my opinion the internet is 1000 times better than a book. Granted I do read books and you can learn from them, but on the internet you can read 100's of caresheets'/faq sheets with information from hundreds of books and thousands of personal experiences. You cant get this in a book. The lazy people are the people that do not commit a couple hours to do a thoural search and read enuff of the information
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Old 08-18-04, 04:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, I have mixed feelings about this post. I think that it's important that people do there own research on the animal that they have aquired but also they shouldn't be shuned or picked on because they ask for opinions of other herpers. keep in mind everyone that all the books and care sheets contridict one another all the time. That can get confusing to someone new to the hobby, or even an experienced keeper.
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