border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Community Forums > General Discussion

Notices

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-04, 10:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2004
Location: Langley
Posts: 334
Country:
Send a message via MSN to annieb_mice Send a message via Yahoo to annieb_mice
Lizlady... While I agree with you in that I wouldn't feed my snakes a dog or cat, I see no problem if others chose to do so in their OWN home, NOT in a school classroom. <Sorry, but that's really just asking for trouble.> I don't agree with live feeding regardless of the animal. This teacher showed extremely poor judgement, but I really don't think he should lose his job over that one incident. If he had a history of doing stuff like this, then I think there should be some sort of "investigation" to determine if he is actually fit to be teaching. Also, let's not forget, these are high school kids, not kindergartners. I'm sure most of them have already seen some "nasty" stuff including drugs, knifings, shootings, beatings, ect. High school isn't all sunshine and flowers these days.
About the puppies, they were going to be killed anyways. While I think the teacher should have used prekilled rabbits or another "natural" food item
__________________
Please check out our new website -- www.annies-rodents.com
annieb_mice is offline  
Old 07-31-04, 10:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2004
Location: Langley
Posts: 334
Country:
Send a message via MSN to annieb_mice Send a message via Yahoo to annieb_mice
Lizlady... While I agree with you in that I wouldn't feed my snakes a dog or cat, I see no problem if others chose to do so in their OWN home, NOT in a school classroom. <Sorry, but that's really just asking for trouble.> I don't agree with live feeding regardless of the animal. This teacher showed extremely poor judgement, but I really don't think he should lose his job over that one incident. If he had a history of doing stuff like this, then I think there should be some sort of "investigation" to determine if he is actually fit to be teaching. Also, let's not forget, these are high school kids, not kindergartners. I'm sure most of them have already seen some "nasty" stuff including drugs, knifings, shootings, beatings, ect. High school isn't all sunshine and flowers these days.
About the puppies, they were going to be killed anyways. Do you have any idea how many cute little puppies or kittens are killed in shelters everyday? I'm sorry to say this, but NOT every puppy has a home. These two certainly didn't. Their owner dumped them at a shelter which was going to kill them. If these animals are going to be killed anyways, why not at least make use of their bodies? Shelters are always complaining about the lack of funds, why not sell their dead animals to zoos or wildlife rehabs to be used as food? It would benefit the zoos to get lowcost animals and the shelters would get some much needed funding.
I think the teacher should have used prekilled rabbits or another "natural" food item, or at least fed the snakes AFTER the students had left.
Dang... I did it again... okay... how many people did I offend this time? LOL!
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~
__________________
Please check out our new website -- www.annies-rodents.com
annieb_mice is offline  
Old 08-01-04, 01:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
hhw
Member
 
Join Date: Jun-2004
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Age: 36
Posts: 345
Personally, if I state my opinion and back it up with reasoning and somebody gets offended, I don't pay it any attention. As far as I'm concerned, any person who can not tolerate another's well thought out opinion is too narrowminded to worry about.

With that said, as I expressed in the other thread, I don't believe dogs and cats merit the special treatment they are afforded in Western culture. Anyone who eats meats like pork and says dogs and cats should not be used for food is either:
a) Ethnocentrically biased.
b) A hypocrite.
c) Both.

Pigs are just as intelligent as dogs, so there are no grounds for arguing for the welfare of dogs or cats over pigs based on their intelligence, welfare, or degree of suffering. In fact, since dogs and cats are currently euthanized humanely with vet products while pigs are killed in a cost effective, assembly-line like manner where they are perfectly cognisant of their coming deaths, I would question why you aren't more concerned about the suffering of pigs than dogs and cats.

Now, if that offended anyone, point out any hate-filled bias or anything else of a truly offensive nature. The only bias I possess is against people unable to exercise logic or think for themselves, and for that I will not apologize. If you want to argue against the use of dogs or cats based on their cuteness or your affection for them as pets, realize that you are biased and accept criticism for your lack of objectivity.

On another note, the TT person from the original site made an interesting point. Many people who argue against the use of cats or dogs as food aren't doing so so much because they can't stand the thoughts of their beloved pets suffering or being put to death. Rather, it's a question of whether or not they have to deal with it themselves or leave it to farmers and never think about the lives of the animals when they eat their meat. For cats and dogs, animals that people see everyday, it's much more difficult for people to dissociate the animal from the meat.
__________________
1.0 Pastel Ball Python, 1.9 Normal Ball Pythons, 0.1 African House Snake, 1.0 Savannah Monitor, 0.0.1 Argentinian Horned Frog
hhw is offline  
Old 08-01-04, 03:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
Member
 
herpslave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul-2004
Location: slave dungeon
Age: 36
Posts: 132
Personally I believe only dogs of old age or a non spreadable diseased dopg that dies for these reasons should only be fed to a snake. A reason would be rats don't usually live upto 15 years or more like a dog or cat. I myself Feed snakes rats ofcoarse, But not dogs. Don't mean to be argumentitive but thats my opinion. Since there are 2 dogs in my house. And a 4 and a half foot bp in my house.
herpslave is offline  
Old 08-01-04, 10:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 
Will's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2003
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 577
Keep in mind, I wasn't realy bothered by this story, but believe the teacher should have known better...

That's fine and dandy that you believe there is a Western bias when it comes to this. You have to realize though that we do not live in a cultural vacuum(although some could argue that ). There are certain norms in our society that are generally frowned on - Eating puppies and kittens is one while eating cows and pigs isn't. It is true that there is a bias towards some animals over others in Western cultures, but guess what...? We are living in a Western culture and whether we like them or not those norms are there - and so is that teacher. As such, he should have realized the probability of the reaction to this...
__________________
California Kingsnakes.
Honduran Milksnakes.
Black Milksnakes.

Last edited by Will; 08-01-04 at 10:20 AM..
Will is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 08-01-04, 05:30 PM   #21 (permalink)
Member
 
CHRISANDBOIDS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct-2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Age: 27
Posts: 1,737
Send a message via MSN to CHRISANDBOIDS14
Quote:
Originally posted by lizlady
It just makes me think what this world is coming to when people enjoy watch another kill another animal and eat it.
What the hell?! Nobody does(or most people dont) "Enjoy" watching this! Nobody ever said that. That kind of ridiculous.

--------------------

Why are we trying to give a place/value to other animals inhabiting this world? Are we the eternal gods deciding everything? I think that the spider hiding over there in the corner of your room is just as important as you are. If the spider got killed? Would it change the world completely? No. If you got killed, would it change the world completly? No. Would it change a little? Yes. We have people that care about us and love us, but the spider doesnt. Just because some animals dont exactly have a social status, doesnt mean they have any less importance in how our world works.

I totally think that what the teacher did was wrong, because maybe in his mind he knew and understood the logic of what was going to happen, but the kids didnt. Its just put a bad image on us.

Would I feed my dog to a retic/annaconda/rock? No. Why? because I care about him and his life, sure, maybe its a little biased, but I care the same for all my herps. Even though I cant really express any emotions to them, and they cannot to me, I can love that fact that they are alive and take care of them, and preserve their life. So I cant cuddle them, but do I really care? No. To me, its more about being nice to the animal and giving it a better chance of survival in this world.

I think our conversations are useless, as the whole of us(our site "family") are NEVER going to agree completly on this, so in my opinion its kind of no use arguing. I think we all(or most of us) can agree that maybe some of us my have fed the pupies off, but not infront of the kids. Just wasnt a smart thing to do.

C.

-Edited for Typo
__________________
0.2 Bloods for Sale. Adult and juvinile. PM me for details.
Cheers!
Chris

Last edited by CHRISANDBOIDS14; 08-01-04 at 05:36 PM..
CHRISANDBOIDS14 is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 12:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2004
Location: Langley
Posts: 334
Country:
Send a message via MSN to annieb_mice Send a message via Yahoo to annieb_mice
HHW.... I agree with you about the cruel way pigs, cows, poultry, and other animals are killed so humans can eat. I don't eat a lot of meat, but what I do eat, I prefer to buy from a local farm that humanely raises and kills it's own animals. Yes, I still buy meat from supermarkets. :P There is a difference in taste though from the farm raised animals, to the supermarket cuts.
In Western culture we place very little value on cows, yet in other cultures the cow is revered. You are correct in that pigs are very intelligent. I think pigs are the only other animal, besides humans, that can have orgasms, not that THAT really matters here... but still.
Mind you, in other cultures they eat horses and drink camel's milk. In many other parts of the world insects are considered a food source, and some are considered a delicacy.
Oh darn, I got off topic... or did I? I can't remember.... oh well...
I'm gonna go and enjoy my iced lemonade and do the Time Warp again!
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~
__________________
Please check out our new website -- www.annies-rodents.com
annieb_mice is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 10:57 AM   #23 (permalink)
Member
 
CHRISANDBOIDS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct-2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Age: 27
Posts: 1,737
Send a message via MSN to CHRISANDBOIDS14
Quote:
Originally posted by annieb_mice
You are correct in that pigs are very intelligent. I think pigs are the only other animal, besides humans, that can have orgasms, not that THAT really matters here... but still.
And I heard Dolphins are the only others that do it for pleasure. LOL.

C.
__________________
0.2 Bloods for Sale. Adult and juvinile. PM me for details.
Cheers!
Chris
CHRISANDBOIDS14 is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 11:03 AM   #24 (permalink)
Member
 
madison.s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct-2002
Location: pickering
Posts: 308
CHRISANDBOIDS14, the only reason someone would get upset with what i said is if you like to watch....there are lots of people that like to watch, like it is a big thrill to see and some people watch because it is fasinating. i know lots of people that like to feed live because they think it is fasinating, and that is up to the person. and again opintions are like a@@holes and everyone has one so if you dont like what i said thats fine but dont try to say that people dont like to watch, some people just like to watch to see it and that is fine but not for me.. if you like to watch then thats up to you too and i dont care, i feed frozen and that is up to me. man it is just a opintion no need to get hissy about it.
madison.s is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 11:11 AM   #25 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr-2004
Age: 33
Posts: 651
i personally do not see anything wrong with feeding puppies to snakes. It also makes me sick that anyone would make such a big deal about it. Many people would argue rats are smarter than dogs. These kids who cry when the teacher tells them he is gonna feed a puppy to a snake have a lifetime of hurt infront of them. Its ridiculous.
concept3 is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 08-02-04, 11:28 AM   #26 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun-2004
Posts: 1,109
i totally agree. now, while i would not kill my dog and feed him off, this does not mean i wouldnt feed some other dog or cat off if opportunity presented itself. and for whoever said that rats dont live long so it doesnt matter, they can live for 15 years. in my opinion, it is one of the most basic facts of life that some animals eat other animals. i dont care whether these animals are smart, cute or long lived. i feed my animals whatever is 1) healthy 2)costeffective. i do not feed pets to other pets for no reason, but if one of my animals was to be mortally injured or killed, i see no reason why the body should not be used in any way that benefits.
thunder is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 11:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar-2002
Posts: 5,936
Send a message via ICQ to marisa Send a message via MSN to marisa Send a message via Yahoo to marisa
Hell, I'd feed neighborhood children if it was cost effective, healthy, and not illegal :P

Marisa
marisa is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 11:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun-2004
Location: moncton, N.B. Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 27
my opinion, the teacher was stupid for not thinking before opening his mouth, doing things at home are one thing but at school was a big no no. like others said i couldn't feed cats or dogs but i see nothing wrong with it if its dead and wouldn't harm the snake, though it would be unhumain to breed dogs for food. i do agree that like the natives we should not wast the body and it be meaningless, nobody wanted these dogs so its not as if they were pets with names...and NO he should not be fired for being stupid
__________________
"despite the cost of living it still remains popular"
2.1 guyana red tail boas, 1.0 ball python,1.0 milk snake
maritimExotics is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 11:42 AM   #29 (permalink)
Member
 
timminsreptiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2004
Location: Timmins On
Age: 40
Posts: 150
Send a message via MSN to timminsreptiles
I also agree altho i dont think it shouldve been done in front of a classroom full of kids that dont understand......feeding puppies or kittens (prekilled of corse) to any animal is no diff from feeding rats or rabbits. Just because dogs and cats or any animal for that matter are smarter than others, dont give them more of a right to live. I myself would never go and kill my dog so to feed my snakes but i do think that feeding an animal that will be killed and burried anyway is justified rather than letting it rot away...at least it can die with some dignity and its life has not been totally wasted......and thats what i say
__________________
0.1 frilled dragon,1.0 reg burm, 1.1 alb burm, 0.1 rock, 1.1 bci, 1.1 ball, 0.1 green vine snake, 0.1.2 sav, 0.0.1 salvator, 0.0.1 nile, 1.0 dumerils, 3.1 green iggy,1.2 cuban......etc.
timminsreptiles is offline  
Old 08-02-04, 01:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
Member
 
Samba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep-2002
Location: New Mexico
Age: 37
Posts: 1,232
Send a message via AIM to Samba Send a message via MSN to Samba Send a message via Yahoo to Samba
I posted these news articles as a response/continuation of the topic in the “Feeding” thread. I haven’t been able to read your responses until now, so here is my take:

The teacher was ignorant, but if it was a crime to be stupid we'd all be locked up at some point and time (no offense, guys). Humans aren't perfect, and we shouldn't judge anyone, no matter the situation. Personally, I'd like to think the teacher caused this whole commotion to get the public to see the epidemic going on. People are so desensitized that it really takes something like this to get them to care, to speak, to act. No one wanted these puppies before this guy was to feed them off, but, oh, so fast did they find homes after being 'spared'!!

This man shouldn't loose his job... how many people would have been outraged if he said he was going to feed live rats to these snakes? No one would have said a thing, the students probably wouldn't have cried, and the snakes would have been fed. Those rats wouldn't have found loving homes in which to grow old...


Quote:
Originally posted by Rebecca
Even so it's still kinda sad. I mean that was someones pet or could have been someones pet if it had been aloud to live right.

Rebecca: It IS sad, but these puppies weren't pets. If they had been pets they wouldn't be sitting in a shelter. These puppies are pets now, because this man actually saved their lives. From what I understand, they were both adopted. (Where were these people before this all happened???)

Quote:
Originally posted by annieb_mice
So many people disagree with using dogs or other "pet" animals as food, yet they refuse to have their animals fixed and many people actually add to problem by purposely breeding their animals .... so they can let their children see the babies or whatever
I agree, totally. I once met a woman at a petstore who did just that… allowed her cat to become pregnant so she could show her children the ‘miracle of birth.’ When I asked her what would become of the kittens, she said she would take them to a shelter. I became so upset - she wouldn’t even consider how she could show them a ‘nature’ program, or videotape someone else’s (human or pet) birth. She just didn’t get it; she wanted to show her children how special birth is, and then how worthless the animals are… (by discarding them afterwards).

Quote:
Originally posted by lizlady
yes it is part of life and life happens but puppies are pets and have no place in a snakes mouth.
Puppies are prey, and they can and do become eaten in some parts of the world by snakes, and even by humans!

Quote:
Originally posted by annieb_mice
If these animals are going to be killed anyways, why not at least make use of their bodies? Shelters are always complaining about the lack of funds, why not sell their dead animals to zoos or wildlife rehabs to be used as food? It would benefit the zoos to get lowcost animals and the shelters would get some much needed funding.
I need not say anything, I think that is a brilliant idea!

Quote:
Originally posted by hhw
Pigs are just as intelligent as dogs, so there are no grounds for arguing for the welfare of dogs or cats over pigs based on their intelligence, welfare, or degree of suffering. In fact, since dogs and cats are currently euthanized humanely with vet products while pigs are killed in a cost effective, assembly-line like manner where they are perfectly cognisant of their coming deaths, I would question why you aren't more concerned about the suffering of pigs than dogs and cats.
I agree, Hhw. I am an animal lover with a particular fondness for pigs (don’t ask me why…). They are incredibly smart animals… They certainly deserve a lot more credit than people give.

Most slaughterhouses have the doomed animals lined up, so they can wait their turn while watching the others preceding them in line die. Animals are far from stupid… they know what’s going on… can you even imagine their terror? They’ve grown up being fed and cared for by humans, then suddenly their ‘protectors’ murder them. The very thought makes me squeamish.

And here we are… crying about a few puppies. Although I think they should be gassed first (the way rodents are); no animal should suffer if it doesn’t have to…

Feeding live is inexcusable for any species of mammal.
__________________
~*SaMbA*~

Last edited by Samba; 08-02-04 at 03:13 PM..
Samba is offline  
Login to remove ads
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0