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Old 07-29-04, 12:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm with you, Samba! I tell people all the time to spay or neuter their animals, most complain that it costs too much. When I give them the names and numbers of free or low cost clinics, they STILL refuse! Sometimes I feel like taking these people to the pound to watch all the animals being killed because their owners refused to have them fixed ... but I doubt it would do any good.
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Old 07-29-04, 12:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Now, here's the question with a slightly different spin...

What are thoughts on feeding reptiles to other reptiles?
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Old 07-29-04, 12:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by hhw
Now, here's the question with a slightly different spin...

What are thoughts on feeding reptiles to other reptiles?
Good question. If it is a part of their natural diet, then I think it is fine (sort of, if I kept them as my pets, I wouldn't want to feed them to another pet). I think it depends on what they would naturally eat.

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Old 07-29-04, 12:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree with you, Annie. I just rescued a dog, two days ago. Her owners moved out of state and left her behind. Their neighbor is a friend of mine, and when he asked when they would be coming back to get their dog they simply stated that they wouldn't. They didn't want to take her to the pound because, they felt, she would have a better chance of survival on her own. Just this one time they were right because I got ahold of her and I'm never letting go. Despite the fact that I have a small one bedroom apartment, despite the fact that I can barely feed myself, I have taken this dog to be my family member. It's not easy and so many other people probably would have just looked the other way. I don't want to seem like I don't care, because I do, but I see a problem we have and like Oliverian mentioned earlier, if these animals are going to die anyways, at least dignify that death with a purpose.

As far as intelliegence goes, it is still irrelevant to me... just because one creature has a greater capacity for understanding than another doesn't mean the 'dumb' one deserves to die first. It doesn't mean that 'smart' ones should be spared. It means nothing because a life is a life, no matter which way you look at it...

The zoo idea might also be something that is viable, but again, to get that idea socially accepted is a feat probably impossible. Thanks for your comments!
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Old 07-29-04, 12:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I really don't care about feeding reptiles to other reptiles... it's a natural variation of many reptile's diets. I used to have hognosed snakes, and I fed them toads, even though I like them very much it wasn't a problem for me. Anoles, house geckos, etc. are being used as feeders for small snakes, monitors and other creatures... why not? We don't exactly have a spay/neuter your anole campaigne going on... LOL
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Old 07-29-04, 01:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with feeding the NATURAL diet to reptiles, regardless of whether that is other snakes and lizards or rodents. I know of several people that breed lizards specifically to feed to their kingsnakes. I wouldn't do this, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it... as long as the animals were humanely euthanized.
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Old 07-29-04, 01:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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a related story: once, a co-worker of mine was holding one of my newborn leos, and she accidentally crushed it (dont ask me how, she is an idiot). she was shocked upset when i fed the dying animal to a young mole kingsnake, saying that i should euthanize it and have a proper burial and such. i think that an animal shouldnt be wasted like that, that it is natural for animals to be eaten. my philosophy carries over, in that if any of my animals were injured in such a way that they could not heal properly and lead a comfortable life, i would rather feed it off than waste it. the fact that it was once my pet does not bother me, as i do not consider it disrespectful. it seems right that it should be returned to the "system," as it were.
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Old 07-29-04, 01:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I personally wish there was a law forbiding anyone to have a dog or cat unless they had it spayed/ nuetered within the appropiate time. It should be a free service EVERYwhere. I've known of too many cases of people just dumping puppies or kittens by the side of the road. It's sickening!

Maybe the idea of using euthanized animals from the shelters as feeder foods for zoos would draw much attention to the national crisis of unwanted pets. Something needs to be done.


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Old 07-29-04, 01:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I agree with you, Dawnell 100,000 %!!! People have to have a license to drive, sometimes to work, everything is so regulated, and yet this part of our culture is so neglected!!!! People should earn the privilage of 'owning' another living being, not have it taken away long after the damage has been done.

The idea of feeding someone's former pet to a snake, bear, lion or monitor is just shocking enough that people will fight against it and possibly come up with better ideas, it definately would increase awareness like you wouldn't believe. Maybe people would think twice about letting their animals breed; about putting those free puppies and kitties ads in the newspapers; hopefully, it'll make them think of small ways they can contribute... like just being a responsible pet owner in the first place!
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Old 07-29-04, 01:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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People have a problem with killing things they empathize with. Most people (Westerners anyway) empathize with cats and dogs because everyone had one growing up. It doesn't hurt that they're mammals like us either, There's nothing special about them that doesn't apply to rats and rabbits. Anyone who cant acknowledge that just cant see their own bias.

That said, I wouldn't kill a cat or a dog to feed a snake. I would probably feed dead cats or dogs to snakes provided they weren't killed for that purpose. I have no problem with others using cats or dogs as feeders. I'm just biased. I have known too many cats and dogs far too well to do that.

My huge (23lb) male tabby cat died just yesterday. I would no more consider using his body as a food than I would consider using any member of my family as food.

Reptiles as feeders? why not.

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Old 07-29-04, 01:42 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm sorry to hear about your cat... I know that loses are difficult. The idea we are discussing here is mainly unwanted litters of puppies and kittens. Adult animals are involved in this issue, but the point is that animals are euthanized in shelters, why not use their remains to feed another creature? Their bodies would just end up in a landfill anyways, doing no good whatsoever. In my opinion, people who have loved and cared for their pets get to do whatever they want for them... whether it be burial, cremation, etc.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss...
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Old 07-29-04, 03:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Just out of curiousity, for those who prefer burial to using their pets for food, do you believe in an afterlife?

Personally, I do not believe in an afterlife, or even the concept of a soul. I'm not even entirely certain I believe in consciousness as anything greater than a bunch of cells working together in some biological process.

That being said, a deceased pet to me is nothing but lifeless organic matter. I don't see how feeding the animal whole would be any different than having various microorganisms break it down in the decomposition process. Cremation would be slightly different, but that's simply subjecting your pet to a chemical rather than biological process, and despite being able to keep the remains around the house for rememberance, I don't see that as expressing any more respect for your pet's memory than just simply feeding it off.

However, this opinion is based on my feelings toward an afterlife, soul, and consciousness. If I believed in any notion of a deceased pet's happiness from beyond the grave, perhaps I would feel differently. I'm just curious if this is the primary reason other people base their opinions towards using cats, dogs, or reptiles as food.
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Old 07-29-04, 03:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Samba
As far as intelliegence goes, it is still irrelevant to me... just because one creature has a greater capacity for understanding than another doesn't mean the 'dumb' one deserves to die first. It doesn't mean that 'smart' ones should be spared. It means nothing because a life is a life, no matter which way you look at it...
As far as using a humanely euthanized animal food, I would agree with you. I don't think I could ask for a better death myself than to simply pass out and die without ever feeling any pain or being aware of my coming death.

However, I would probably use a live rodent to feed a reptile as a last resort, but I could never see myself feeding a cat or dog live. It's not so much a valuation of life, as it is the animal's capacity for suffering. Possessing greater intelligence and understanding, I feel a cat or dog would invariably suffer more than a rodent. Now, where you draw the line between what is too intelligent to be fed live and what isn't, I would not be able to answer...
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Old 07-29-04, 03:59 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Life nomatter how small or big...beautiful or ugly is equal. As much as we all like to think..on a universal level we are no more important than any of our household pets. I can honestly say if i had found kittens and could not find homes for them i would have no problem feeding them to my snakes.
as far as a line of what could be fed live and not. i dont think its fair we make one.

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Old 07-29-04, 04:03 PM   #30 (permalink)
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HHW _ I do not draw a line between what is too intelligent and what is not to be fed live, (except when speaking of insects). It's not as humane as making sure the animal will not feel or know anything about what is coming to it. I don't think the suffering would be any worse for a dog or cat, except mentally (the intelligence we are speaking about) if the animal has come to know and trust humans. Many feeder rats have come to know and trust humans as well...

I do believe rats suffer, and they know that death is impending when they meet a snake... that's why they run and scream... I have (unfortuantely) fed a live rat to my snake once when no frozens were available and I was getting desparate for him. The rat knew the snake would kill it. It ran, screamed and even nipped at my snake in a attempt to stay alive. When it was all over (and I did not stay to watch) I swore never to feed live again, or at the very least, whack the rodent myself to spare its suffering. I felt a horrible, horrible guilt for a long time and cried a lot of tears for that one, single rat.

I know that in nature, none of the rats and mice eaten are humanely dispatched... but in circumstances where humans control the climate, movement and environment for our animals (both pets and feeders) we also take great steps to decrease suffering, to make ill animals well, and to end the lives of those suffering.

No animal should suffer, no matter what it's mental capacity is. No domestic animal should be euthanized because there is no home for it. I would never feed a live cat or dog, but I see no real difference between them and rodents...
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