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Old 06-26-04, 01:11 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I guess I worded it wrong saying he deserved death but it kind of comes with the enviroment he was involved with.
And I suppose you believe he wanted to be in this environment, and that he chose to be here? Most real 'gangsters' are in that position as they felt they had no other choice, and often had horrible childhoods, parents without jobs or lacking money as a whole. Tupac rapped about his struggles, and one reason he was so popular is because a lot of people could relate to him and his problems.

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By glorifying the "Thug Life" it makes people think it is ok to act in that matter when really, it's not.
I wouldn't really say he glorified it. If someone is stupid enough to think that a life of dealing drugs, murder, and having to worry about every step you make, knowing your life is on the life, is something to be glorified, then how can you blame Tupac for their stupidity?

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My problem with people like 50 cent, 2 pac, and every other rapper out there that talks about their past is that they are not promoting it as a horrible time in their life. They promote it as an over glorified good time.
Again, if someone is stupid enough to believe a life of killing, death, drugs, and fearing for your life is something to strive for, then you cannot blame a rapper for their stupidity. If I tell you jumping off a bridge onto a cement floor is fun, and the thing to do, will you do it? Everyone keeps referring to how they glorify it, maybe it is just me, but all I hear is how bad their lives have been.

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Its one thing to say you will learn from your mistakes, it's another all together to say you'll learn from your mistakes and then keep repeating them. For these types of people, 2 pac included, he used the line "learning from my mistakes" as a way to gain acceptance, while he continued making these mistakes over and over again.
Again, do you think he wanted to be in the life he was? Anyhow, rap is not the only type of music that promotes illegal activity. I am sure we all know this.

One thing I love about Eminem, is that he glorifies the truth in that people are so quick to blame others for their problems, or for the way theirs kids act. As Matt quoted from his lyrics, it is the parents' responsibility to raise their children properly, and if they fail to do so, why is it fair to blame others for this?
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Old 06-26-04, 01:35 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
Everyone should have heroes...personally, mine is Jeffery Dahmer.

Seriously though, gangster rap is not any kind of positive music and never will be. Tupac wasn't doing anything to stop racism, all he did was promote a negative stereotype, one that is still promoted by todays ever-so packaged 'gangster' rappers. I love looking at my little sisters teen-beat magazine and seeing 50-cent right next to Hillary Duff.

Do people even think before trying to defend something so mindlessly?
ummm, no offense, but if you actually read what myself and many others wrote in his defence, you'll see that we put a hell of a lot of thought into it... also, how many of his songs have you heard? his peoms? his books? his writings? his interviews? well i've seen, heard, and read pretty much all of it so i'd say i'm in a pretty good position to teach you all here the knowledge i've aquired.. his songs are like a book or a movie.. i don't see you saying the movie gladiator is a negative movie and in fact you probably like it.. well, think of tupac as the gladiator, he's done many bad things, but because he had to.. tupac's songs are like the movie, telling his many battles with life and how he succeeded thru them all but was back stabbed at the end, causing him to die...

don't take this to heart, i'm just trying to educate you on tupac a bit before you speak and compare his "gangster rap" to that of 50 cent's.. i believe the reason many people dislike pac is because of ignorance... people just throw him into the general gangster rap that has made hip hop such a bad thing... no hard feelings to anyone i'm trying to educate here alright?
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Old 06-26-04, 01:35 AM   #48 (permalink)
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da_illest

The name Vengeance comes from the comic book Ghost Rider, Vengeance was a character in the comic book.

Now you could be right, I could have done 10 x worse things in my past then 2 pac ever has, but here is the difference maker. I won't ever publicize the things I've done, try and make them seem ok because I survived. If I did half of the stuff that 2 pac did, I would not be sitting here saying, "Yea, I used to be a gangster, I did all this stuff, but now I'm a rapper so it's ok". I wouldn't publicize that this was what I did to get to where I am today. I would be ashamed of the things I did, I wouldn't want to make a spectacle out of the things I did because they arenít things that a person should be proud of. Now if 2 Pac lived in the ghetto was able to stay out of gangs, stay away from the violence and drugs and made it out to become the person he was today. That would be a much more positive message to put out there then, I lived in the ghetto, I was in a gang, I did some violent things, but now that I've made it out, I want everyone to know what I did so they will respect me more. NO! I won't respect a person more because he was a criminal and was able to make it out of a horrible environment, I respect the person that in that horrible environment would be able to remain a law abiding citizen and still make something of himself after the fact, if he became a rapper or a rocket scientist. That is a message worth glorifying and publicizing, 2 pac should never be proud of his past, he should have learned from it, not glorified it. If he had of learned from his mistakes and tried to get away from that type of lifestyle then maybe he would still be alive today.

But to sit here and justify and morn his lifestyle is not right. He didn't lead a positive life. Now this isn't saying that every criminal, or every rapper, or every gang banger is a piece of trash. But if you are proud of the horrible things you have done in the course of your life and then publicize the fact you did these things and try and justify and make it out like this type of lifestyle is ok, that makes a person a piece of trash. That type of lifestyle should not be a badge on your sleeve, it shouldn't be promoted in anyway, a person should take from those experiences and learn from then, not continue down the past and justify the things that you do/did because of the environment you grew up in.

Now here is something I'm curious about, what is the difference between 50 cent and 2 pac. They both promote the same message. They were gang members, they have committed violent crimes, been involved in gang activates, and they are proud of it. Spreading this message across the air waves like MTV and every piece of media. Do you honestly think that this is the type of message we should tolerate? Can you sit there and tell me that publicizing yourself as a gangster is ok? These things are not things that should be socially accepted, but they are, and they are accepted because of people like 2 pac and 50 cent who glorify their horrible past as an ok thing.

That is what bothers me about people with that type of message.
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Old 06-26-04, 01:49 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally posted by ReptiliansDOTca

And I suppose you believe he wanted to be in this environment, and that he chose to be here? Most real 'gangsters' are in that position as they felt they had no other choice, and often had horrible childhoods, parents without jobs or lacking money as a whole. Tupac rapped about his struggles, and one reason he was so popular is because a lot of people could relate to him and his problems.
I've always hated this type of statement because there is ALLWAYS another choice. It may not be the easy choice but every person who lives in that type of environment isn't a gang banger. He may not of liked being in that situation but it was still HIS CHOICE. He consciously made the choice to be in a gang, he consciously made a choice to commit violent acts of crime. He made those choices, nobody else made them for him. Then to publicize that he made those choices as a means of survival, to me is BS. There are always other choices, no one has to be a violent criminal, but he made that choice. Now he was glorifying and making it ok because he made those choices because of where he lived.

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Again, if someone is stupid enough to believe a life of killing, death, drugs, and fearing for your life is something to strive for, then you cannot blame a rapper for their stupidity. If I tell you jumping off a bridge onto a cement floor is fun, and the thing to do, will you do it? Everyone keeps referring to how they glorify it, maybe it is just me, but all I hear is how bad their lives have been.
But the thing is why do they have to sit there and say that they have done all these things and look at me now? I mean think of it from this end. These public figures are sitting around saying, yea I did this and that, and I committed this crime and that crime, and I was in a gang. But look at me now, I make millions of dollars because of what I used to be. How are people supposed to perceive that kind of message? To them it looks as if because of the things they did, the person they were, they were able to become this superstar. That is not the type of message a person with such public influence should be sending. Sure they may have had a tough upbringing, but don't sit there and tell everyone every horrible thing you've done. Reflect on the fact that yes things were tough, yes they were bad, but I've moved past that and I'm a better person. That's the message they should try and promote.
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Old 06-26-04, 02:08 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I'm not offended.

I haven't seen gladiator.

I don't feel that I need to be 'educated' on why tupac wasn't such a bad guy. I'm sure he wasn't a bad guy. I don't agree with his messages or the image. This music is glorifying how big and bad these guys are. And, yes its just my opinion that this is simply the lamest thing ever.

And, finally:
if it was my favourite singers bday/dday, why the hell would I post it here? This kind of post has happened before, and all that resulted were flames that no one was any better for.
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Old 06-26-04, 04:20 AM   #51 (permalink)
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"and I refuse to let my GF outside of the house after dark..."
Well, maybe that's a good thing...besides, I am sure there is a leash law where you live..LOL

Tupac was one of the best rapper's that ever lived. Let's see another rapper put albums out after they die! DOH!
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Old 06-26-04, 08:27 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Old 06-26-04, 09:02 AM   #53 (permalink)
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2 Pac was trying to stop racism haven't you ever listened to CHANGES it's the most beautiful song i'v ever heard...

"I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro pull the trigger kill a ****** he's a hero
Give crack to the kids who the hell cares one less ugly mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things changed, and that's the way it is."

you have to listen to the irony in his voice to truly understand this song...

oh also

"Some say tha Blacker tha berry
Tha sweeter tha juice
I say, tha darker tha flesh and tha deeper tha roots
I give a hollar to my sisters on welfare
Tupac cares, but don't nobody else care
I know they like ta beat ya down a lot
And when ya come around tha block brothers clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry ya eyes
Never let up
Keep ya head up."

this isn't exactly trying to stop racism but it is trying to help people get through tough circumstances.
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Old 06-26-04, 09:16 AM   #54 (permalink)
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It's funny how when someone dies they're practically declared saints
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Old 06-26-04, 09:21 AM   #55 (permalink)
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i DO know what you mean there...for me the big SAINT man right now is Ronald Reagan...THE MAN TRYED TO GET RID OF WELFARE!!!! seriously how good could he have been! but anyway sorry about that...

plus im not saying he's (2Pac) was a saint im just saying that there are worse people to tear your teeth into, so to speek.
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Old 06-26-04, 09:36 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally posted by da_illest
[B] well i've seen, heard, and read pretty much all of it so i'd say i'm in a pretty good position to teach you all here the knowledge i've aquired..
LMAO! I almost fell over when I heard this! BAHAHA!

So what could you "teach" me bud? The most efficient way to smoke crack? Or maybe how to load 9mm? I highly doubt that there is anything that you could teach me about this guy that I would actually want to learn.

Keep the comedy coming!
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Old 06-26-04, 09:58 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I watched this thread, after a while of being open there were only 4 posts, then someone made a comment and in came the bandwagon

he simply posted his appreciation for a musician...I don't see anyone making comments about Metallica in any other threads....btw, I'm a large metallica fan and a large rap fan...just try to understand that not necessarily everyone has the same musical taste
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Old 06-26-04, 10:31 AM   #58 (permalink)
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LMAO! I almost fell over when I heard this! BAHAHA!

So what could you "teach" me bud? The most efficient way to smoke crack? Or maybe how to load 9mm? I highly doubt that there is anything that you could teach me about this guy that I would actually want to learn.

Keep the comedy coming!

Hah! Daver, that almost made me fall over.. Too true.
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Old 06-26-04, 11:32 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I have no idea why I am defending him or the topic, but where do you see him promoting his lifestyle? He raps about his struggles in life, if somehow you see this as promoting it could you please explain.

Come to think of it, the reason I am posting is because I am so sick and tired of people blaming media, music, video games and movies for the way their children end up. As for the difference between Tupac and 50 Cent, Tupac's rap is more like Poetry, and every song isn't about how he got shot nine times and has twelve hoes. Tupac was an artist, and was actually pretty smart. He went to one of the best dramatic schools in the states. I don't think he really wanted to be in his position.
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Old 06-26-04, 11:47 AM   #60 (permalink)
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