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Old 06-16-04, 02:55 AM   #61 (permalink)
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*** Actually there ARE cases of Golden retrievers and other "family" type dogs that maul humans.... a LOT more than many people know. There was a case last year of a Dashund who tore apart a young baby. There are many cases of "small" dogs attacking humans, mostly children. Why don't we hear about them? Because the media, by this I mean the TV, movies, ect, have told us for YEARS that these dogs are the perfect "family" dogs and with movies like "The Omen" and others that rotties are "devil dogs" or are "bad." If you look at the stats of dog bites in the last twenty years, you will notice that golden retrievers are consistantly in the top ten, while the pitbulls and rotties are only RECENTLY being mentioned in the last few years.
I remember when I was young that everyone believed that dobermans were bad dogs, yet there was a wonderful dobie that lived a block away from me who was very sweet. Then it was German Shepherds. Now it's rotties and pitbulls. There was a news report in the Lower Mainland a few months back of a dog attack. The news showed a picture of a rottie, yet the dog who actually did the attack was a mixed breed that looked NOTHING like a rottie. After that report aired, everyone I talked to firmly believed it was a rottie that did the attack. Several respected rottie breeders actually called the station to correct them and the next time that story aired, the picture of a rottie was not present.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mykee
I think that the parents are mostly to blame here. What kind of goobers would let their child be face to face with an uncaged tiger? Oh yeah, I forgot the Keeper said it was ok! Stoopid! Too bad it was the kid that suffered the injuries. Now to this whole dog thing. Doesn't it seem 'coincidental' that most injuries that are inflicted by Pitbulls are more life-threatening than a poodle who nicks the cheek of a baby while grabbing for a toy, the lab who's claw happens to cut some old ladies sandaled foot on an initial meeting or the Husky who runs over a kid that happens to be in the way of a toy that was thrown at the park?? Why is it we never hear of the Bulldog who rips a childs arm off, or a Golden Reteiver who mauls an old lady? Because it DOESN'T HAPPEN. Let me guess, the media is "picking on" Pitbulls? Rotties? Dobes? Fact is, good breeding or not, these dogs have the ability and sometimes the poor judgement to do what my examples of 'well-behaved' dogs would not. I'll stick with my goofy, beautiful, funny,loving, cheeky Lab and never have to wory about her eating anyones face.
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Old 06-16-04, 08:43 AM   #62 (permalink)
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i dont like the fact of muzzeling evrydog, but i still think it would do more good than bad. im sure if every dog was to wear muzzles there would be a few more people with faces in the world. i know people understand their dogs...i used to have a beautiful australian cattle dog that was as gentle as a dog can get and i understood his body languange perfectly. but accidents do happen, nomatter how sure you are. y not save your dog from the chance (nomatter how slim it mite be) from having to be put down.

my 2 cents

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Old 06-16-04, 09:28 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mykee
I agree, I'm not muzzling my Lab because some high-strung pittbull or rotti decides to eat a child. I think that the dogs who are most likely to attack (we all know what those breeds are) should be forced to take extensive training and then tested on whether or not he/she is suitable as a 'good citizen' dog. Owners should also be fined or made to pay for the medical bills/funeral expenses of any person (s) injured or mauled by their dog, along with euthanizing of the dog, and possibly even jail time for the owner. The owners of these 'problem' breeds get off way to damn light in my opinion. Start hitting them where it hurts.
Hey Mykee...reread your post and tell me it doesn't sound like what might be on a mission statement for the ***. Don't get me wrong, I love Labs, I used to own one. I now have a PB after my Lab passed on. My Lab would nip at people where my PB won't. My point is that all dogs can and will bite given a certain circumstance, not just the "most likely to attack (we all know what those breeds are)". You are 100% on making the owners responsible for what their dogs do. I just don't want this turning into a biased attack on certain breeds because of a reputation or stereotype.
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Old 06-16-04, 10:41 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
If you look at the stats of dog bites in the last twenty years, you will notice that golden retrievers are consistantly in the top ten, while the pitbulls and rotties are only RECENTLY being mentioned in the last few years.
I kind of hate when people say that, the whole 'there is more golden retriever bites then any other dog...' thing. First off, you have to think how many more golden retrievers there are then pitbulls, or any other dog for that matter. Then you have to think what types of homes these dogs are in, a great deal of times golden retrievers are in family houses with children. Children pull, tug, kick, pinch, bite, and in general annoy the dog so it is not hard to see why a bite may occur. Despite the statistics, I would trust a Golden Retriever over a pitbull anyday.
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Old 06-16-04, 12:06 PM   #65 (permalink)
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like i said before, i have a staff/border collie mix.
she CONSTANTLY get attacked by small dogs. mini poodles, shitsu's etc...
she backs down in a second and tries to get away from them.
she backs away from small children, knowing how rowdy they get.
(i work with them)
i put this down to knowing my dog and going through intensive training.
i WISH people had to be licenced to own pitts, staffs, rots...
it would make resoncible owners lives easier.
and i totally disagree with muzzling every dog, plain ignorance.
only people without a dog would say that.
i, however, would muzzle my dog if i thought she was a threat.
whats even funnier is pits are still recommended as family dogs because of thier high pain tolerance.
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Old 06-16-04, 12:14 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Hi Pixie,

I was moving into our new house and didn't have a chance to get online and respond.

Have you ever worked on a farm? Or regularly worked in an environment with guard dogs?

I've seen people who were seriously injured by both. Horses that attempt to kill anyone who comes within reach of their hooves and teeth. Dogs who can only be approached by one person. Cows that are nervous and if even the slightest noise scares them, kick you, and trample you into the dirt.

You should NEVER let a child near any animal without direct supervision, even something as small and "harmless" as a cat.

If the tiger has been socialized he's no more dangerous to the average person than an aggressive breed of dog, yet people often leave their kids alone with the family pet all the time. Hell, people buy Dalmations for their kids because of the Disney movies, and they're one of the worst breeds to leave with small children.

I grew up working with large animals. Even docile, domesticated species are deadly in the right situations. Often unintentionally.

Just because a species is a predator does not make "attacks" predatory. They will do things to people that would not harm their own kind, yet do devastating damage to our flesh. A cuff to warn someone off, or a bite across the "scruff" to discipline.

So I reiterate. Putting the child within reach of a tiger, dog, or horse without proper safeguards in place is equally irresponsible.


Quote:
Originally posted by Pixie
Ummm.....

You've got to be kidding, right?!!!!

Are you saying that letting a child near a Siberian TIGER is the same as a large dog or horse?????

I can't even begin to address the huge differences between the two! If you insist on it, I will explain in more detail, but I think that it's pretty darned obvious!

I just can't understand how anyone could compare these together and judge them to be equally dangerous!

Pixie
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Old 06-16-04, 12:17 PM   #67 (permalink)
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i also want to add a true story, on a pits behalf:
one day the family pit, who was wonderful with children,
decided to bite the UNSUPERVISED child for "no reason"
during the autopsy to find out what happened with the dog
they found an 8 INCH KNITTING NEEDLE lodged in the dogs head
through its ear.
tell me was that the DOGS fault?
was it even the childs fault?
where does the blame lie?
adults maybe?
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Old 06-16-04, 12:32 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Cruciform, that was an extremely good post. And to some extent, I completely agree with you. However, needless to say, a tiger is capable of inflicting more damage then your average dog. But then, like you suggested, to ban tigers - it would only be fair to ban any other animal - be it a cow, horse, donkey, whatever.

Pikachu, very good post as well. Needless to say, the adult is to blame there. In my opinion, a properly trained pitbull is a fantastic family pet. I still remember the days back when I was five or six years old, when I would ride on our pitbulls back around the house.
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Old 06-16-04, 12:47 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Hey anyone watch the news last night? Rotti who was tied up for a few minutes to a tree while the owner was in a store broke free from his leash and attacked a bulldog walking by with it's owners.
Come to think of it, maybe the t.v. station digitally 'erased' a golden retreiver and digitally imposed a rotti there instead, conspiracy and all.
With regards to goldens and labs being involved in more incidents than rottis and pitts, if you look at the amount of dogs, labs/golden retreivers outnumber rottis and pitts 10-1.
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Old 06-16-04, 12:57 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Wingl, and those breeds don't have ANY problem living up to their stereotypes and reputation. When sheps were 'the dog' to own, a rash of attacks. When dobes were 'the dog' to own, a rash of attacks. When rottis were 'the dog' to own, a rash of attacks. and now, that pitts are 'the dog' to own, a rash of attacks. Golden retreivers and labs have been 'the dog' to own for the last 20 years consistently, where's the rash of attacks? It takes a poorly trained dog, AND a stupid owner for an attack to take place. You need both in 99% of the cases. In the case of your lab nipping at people, no offense, but you weren't a responsible enough dog owner in training that dog as a puppy and yes, you should be 100% responsible had that dog done any damage to anyone. Training a lab to not bite is childs play.
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Old 06-16-04, 01:06 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I guess it boils down to this IMO.. Many animals (espeacially dogs) are like people in a sense that we all have our own personalities. Labelling a whole breed because one attacks a small dog, or child just doesnt work. But we, as owners need to take deeper precautions when dealing with any dog or animal that has the potential to hurt another person, or animal. Any dog that has good weight to it, has the potential to inflict injuries to a human, or another dog/animal... So owners need to be responsible....... Which isn't difficult to do.

This does relate to the tiger story, because the owner didnt use enough caution when the boy approached the animal. Using a leash on a 350 pound CAT is not going to work IMO.... So he was completely at fault. Not the animal, not the boy.
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Old 06-16-04, 01:15 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Adam, I do not even know if it is safe to that. I personally have never seen nor heard of a friendly pitbull who was not brought up properly and trained accordingly.
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Old 06-16-04, 01:17 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Re-read the line "So the owner needs to be responsible. which isnt difficult to do"

That relates to proper training, and precautions... as well as intlligence to care for some of the more challenging breeds.
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Old 06-16-04, 01:31 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Sorry, I was more referring to the labelling a whole breed thing.
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Old 06-16-04, 01:51 PM   #75 (permalink)
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David,

Sure, I agree with you there. A tiger definitely can inflict more damage. But we also see thousand of serious dog bite injuries, or horse injuries or whatever each year.

I think rather than banning, if the government *has* to get involved, I'd rather fall under a licensing system.

I'd prefer not to have the government poking themselves into every single aspect of my life, but if they have to, I'd rather it be in a way that I first show I'm responsible, and deserve the privilege, than have them dismiss exotic owners out of hand, call us all bad, and ban our pets.


As for leashed animals, I'd much rather see an aggressive breed kept in a properly enclosed yard than on a fixed-point leash. A dog in an enclosed yard may advance or retreat, and go through their normal routine when dealing with a perceived threat. A dog leashed to a tree, especially on a short leash, will become much more defense because of their exposure.
I can't remember who said it, but a few years ago, I recall seeing a conversation with a dog handler / animal control person who said that they'd rather deal with a loose animal over a chained one any day, because the loose one will probably run, but if you step into the leash area, you're now in the last area of safety that animal has, and it makes them that much more dangerous.

I've got a problem with pit bull owners. Not the dogs themselves. The court case we're involved in is a result of a poor owner that didn't supervise his dog, gave it beer, let it run loose in a yard with an open gate, and would get it worked up hanging from tires and then just leave without giving the dog a cooling down period. That's definitely not a shining example.

But even some "good" PB owners, don't exercise the diligence they should. ANY dog is capable of biting, and any cat is capable of scratching. The damage such breeds can do should be taken into account. If a breed has a stronger fight reflex, than flight reflex, they should never leave the animal alone with the others, and be extra alert when supervising.

A lot of us have gotten nipped, but when the nip comes from an animal with 1800 lbs per square inch of bite, the results can be serious, even if the intent isn't there.

I dealt with our landlord's dog issue sternly enough. When my fiance ruptured a disk in her back going over the fence to get away from the dog, who was running loose in the area we needed to go through to get to our apartment, I told them that if I found him running loose in that area again I would take my shovel and kill him, since Animal Control wouldn't come.

The dog wasn't in any real danger from me, because he's generally a good dog, just very flighty with an aggressive response. But you want to bet they stopped letting him run loose unattended immediately after that.

The son moved elsewhere and took him with him. I hope no one is seriously injured because of their poor animal care.
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