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Old 06-10-04, 03:05 PM   #31 (permalink)
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marisa, if you know whos cat it is........Take a picture, take alot of pictures with a poloroid instant camera or something like that. Then take the pictures to whomever owns the cat, (keep copies) and demand they pay for your furniture repair/cleaning costs!

I'm sure that can get quite expensive!
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Old 06-10-04, 03:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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If stray animals cause you so much grief set out live traps and then bring the animal to the pound.

we haven't had a problem with wild animals in our yard, the dog keeps them at bay.
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Old 06-10-04, 04:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Lisa- Yup that's what we have started doing recently. We haven't caught the sprayer yet but we will.

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Old 06-10-04, 05:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by spidergecko
I'll have to remember to tell the kids to never go in your backyard. I guess gone are the days when a little kid could retrieve his lost fisbee or ball without worrying he might die in the neighbours yard
Let's just say I have a bucket of some corrosive chemicals left out, for specialized cleaning purposes or whatnot. If a small child were to come onto my property, dip their hands in the bucket, and suffer chemical burns, should I be reponsible for having left the chemicals out or should the parents of the child be reponsible for not keeping an eye on him?

If it were kids next door to me who lose their ball or frisbee in my backyard, they should be familiar enough with me to know what I may have going on in my backyard, and know whether or not I would find it acceptable for them to be in my yard. If they don't have that level of familiarity, they should be ringing on my doorbell to ask my permission.

I'm not supporting people leaving out poison for cats; for someone to do so purposely would be egregious. All I'm saying is one should be allowed to have whatever they want in their backyard. This would include poison/traps for cats. It would be ethically wrong, but it would be within the property owner's freedoms to do so. If something goes wrong because of someone or something trespassing, the trespasser's parent/owner should be the one at fault, not the person exercising their freedom to use their backyard for whatever purposes they see fit.
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Old 06-10-04, 07:31 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I can see where the two sides of the argument are coming from, but I do agree that cats do destroy the eco systems around peoples homes, ESPECIALLY in the everglades, my cousins cat actually kill animals for fun, he doesn't even eat them! His entertainment is killing birds, chipmunks, and squirells, once he even brought a garder snake!!!!!!! I agree that people should have to keep their cats inside, Sorry to hear about your cat though im glad he's ok
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Old 06-10-04, 07:50 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Seeings how its been stated. Felines are the only species other than man that hunt just for the sport of it. Mark
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Old 06-10-04, 09:41 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Well, the dogs that took my rabbit cages apart didn't eat the rabbits, just ripped them apart and left them. One of the worst cases by the way of cats damaging the ecosystem is in Australia where they are now a food source to the aboriginal peoples because they have killed off so many of the small native animals including rabbits and such. Cat bites also do serious damage to humans by the way. We have a cat and love her dearly and were worried sick when she got outside, thankfully nothing happened to her and she has never gotten out again. I have a hard enough time killing mice for my snakes and I couldn't bring myself to harm the loose dogs in my neighborhood regardless of the fact that they killed our rabbits and every night they will tear my garbage apart and leave it strewn down my ally, I would however have no problem doing it if the animal attacked my child for no reason! I am glad your sisters cat will be ok, it is sad that it happened but I completely understand why people are fed up with dealing with loose animals.
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Old 06-10-04, 10:14 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I agree with many of the posters here. While I do love animals, and have a cat myself, after having spent MANY years in a ground-level apartment with lots of unneutered male cats spraying EVERYWHERE, I have grown to really dislike uncontrolled cats. While they can be loving and affectionate to their owners, they are also a nuisance to others if left outside and uncontained! I had to pay to fence off my "garden" and in the end completely screened off the entire patio because of the cat problems! I had one couch that was sprayed several times and I finally had to replace it because the stench simply would NOT come out. I can't count the number of times that I would go outside to work in my garden and find cat feces everywhere!
Confronting the cat's owners was useless as they refused to accept the responsibility for their animals. When I started to trap the cats and send them to the SPCA, I was actually threatened and my place was trashed. While I hated the constant problems the cats were causing, I was not about to harm the animals themselves, they were not to blame for their actions, their owners were.
I'm thankful that I'm living in the country on a big farm now. While there is still one male cat that is a "pest," it is nothing like having over a dozen male cats all coming onto my patio and spraying everything constantly.
Oh... and one last comment... I DID have a screen door on my patio door, but one of the cats managed to rip a hole in it and it was trashed within a week.
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Old 06-10-04, 11:08 PM   #39 (permalink)
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"...in Australia where they are now a food source to the aboriginal peoples because they have killed off so many of the small native animals including rabbits and such"

Rabbits weren't native to Australia either.

"Let's just say I have a bucket of some corrosive chemicals left out, for specialized cleaning purposes or whatnot. If a small child were to come onto my property, dip their hands in the bucket, and suffer chemical burns, should I be reponsible for having left the chemicals out or should the parents of the child be reponsible for not keeping an eye on him?"

Well, it does depend on the details of the situation, but it is very likely that you would be found to be at least contributorily negligent, and you could end up on the wrong end of a civil lawsuit, or possibly even charged criminally depending upon how the police viewed the situation. I think part of the question would be the details of 'left out', and just how nasty the stuff in question was.

"If it were kids next door to me who lose their ball or frisbee in my backyard, they should be familiar enough with me to know what I may have going on in my backyard, and know whether or not I would find it acceptable for them to be in my yard. If they don't have that level of familiarity, they should be ringing on my doorbell to ask my permission."

Agreed, however...

"All I'm saying is one should be allowed to have whatever they want in their backyard. "

This is only true so far as the laws of the land allow. Generally, there are quite a few restriction on what you can actually do in your backyard. Check out your municipal zoning by-laws if you don't believe me. No as for the setting of traps, I believe that is a provincial issue.

"This would include poison/traps for cats. It would be ethically wrong, but it would be within the property owner's freedoms to do so. If something goes wrong because of someone or something trespassing, the trespasser's parent/owner should be the one at fault, not the person exercising their freedom to use their backyard for whatever purposes they see fit."

Not according to the law in Canada. If a child enters your backyard and drowns in your swimming pool because you left the gate unlocked, you're in big trouble. If you set traps and injure or kill the neighbours cat, dog, or child, you would not only be civilly liable but could go to jail for cruelty to animals, negligence causing bodily harm, etc. If a burglar enters your home and your dog/cat/nile monitor/death adder bites him, it is entirely possible that he could sue you successfully.

Here's some details specific to Nova Scotia, but I think that Ontario's Occupier's Liability law is very similar.
Apologies for thread hijacking:-)

"In Nova Scotia, the law with respect to this issue is covered by the Occupiers’ Liability Act, and to a lesser extent by the common law.

The Act basically sets out the duties owed by an occupier to persons entering upon their premises. The term "occupier" includes a person who is in physical possession of the premises or has responsibility over it. An occupier may also be someone who has control over either the condition of the premises, the activities that take place or those persons allowed on the property. The "premises" includes land, equipment and fixed structures, water, ships and vessels. It also includes portable structures (trailers) so long as the structure is designed or used for a residence, business or shelter.

What duty of care do occupiers owe?

Under the Act, the occupier owes a duty to take such care as is reasonable in all the circumstances to see that each person entering on the premises is reasonably safe. The duty is in respect to the condition of the premises, activities on the premises and the conduct of third parties. For example, if you host a party and one of your guests falls down the stairs as the result of a missing step, you may be held financially responsible for their injuries.

What can be done to discharge the duty?

In deciding whether an occupier has fulfilled his/her duty, the courts will consider a number of factors including the age of the person entering the premises or that person’s ability to appreciate the danger (for example, we owe a greater duty to children), the efforts made by the occupier to warn of the danger or to discourage persons from entering the premises (signs or fences), whether the occupier knew or ought to have known that the person was on the premises, and whether the risk was something against which the occupier should reasonably have been expected to provide protection.

What about trespassers and thieves?

The duties discussed above do not apply where the person entering the property willingly accepts the risks of doing so. The Act provides that a person is deemed to have accepted the risk where that person trespasses upon certain types of land including (among others) land primarily used for agricultural or forestry purposes, vacant or undeveloped rural land, recreational facilities that are closed for the season and roads that are marked as private and blocked by a gate or other structure. Persons entering upon the premises with the intent of committing an offence under the Criminal Code are also deemed to have willingly assumed the risk. In these cases, the occupier owes a lesser duty not to create a danger with the deliberate intent of doing harm to the person and not to act with careless inattention as to the presence of the person. Accordingly, we cannot go around setting traps inside our homes with the intent of injuring or harming a would-be burglar, nor can we simply choose to ignore the fact that trespassers are entering our property and fail to take reasonable precautions. "

Excerpted from http://www.daleydemont.ns.ca/pages/occupiers.html

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Old 06-11-04, 12:08 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Cats are urban terorrists. They kill thousands upon thousands of birds, small mammals, reptiles, and amphibians every year. People that own outdoor cats provide these animals with food but they still go out and kill, I ask why? The only answer I can come up with is "for fun". Wild animals hunt and kill when they are hungary and need food, not when their bellies are full.

I agree with M_surinamensis to a point, strays should be delt with in an appropriate mannar although I am hesitant to declare open season on them.
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Old 06-11-04, 12:15 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Annie- We are in a very similar situation. And I feel for you because we know all too well that male cat spray is the WORST smell and its literally impossible to remove it sometimes.

You'd think with scientists spending their time making glow in the dark fish that they could make some birth control for cats. I'd be putting it out in food every day if they had something like that.

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Old 06-11-04, 02:45 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I think this has a been a very interesting convo, first off happy to hear your sisters cat made a full recovery. At first i was mad that people would actually consider dealing with a problem cat but after reading on I understand what it must be like having to deal with the smell and constant invasion of cats. I personally love them as i have two of my own but do agree that cats should be kept in at all costs because not only do they destroy native wildlife but they can cost people alot of money. I also agree that it should be the owner that is delt with rather than the cat itself. Now if its a stray i think it should be brought into a shelter where it can either be adopted or humanly put down. There should deffently be more strict laws such as your cat gets then you get fined and if it happens more than three times( because everyone makes simple mistakes) the animal should be put down at the owner exspense and should not be allowed animals in the future, as the owner obviously isn;t going to keep there cat indoors. It dosen;t seem fair that when a cat runs lose or goes into someones house their hobby is bearly shaken but when snakes or lizards get out our hobby is put in alot of danger .It makes me very mad up at my cottage where people let there cats roam and then while were out herping we find them tearring up milk snakes and garters. The saddiest thing i ever saw was a 4-5 foot long northern water snake hanging out of my next door neighbors( up at my cottage) cat's mouth.
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Old 06-12-04, 03:18 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I never posted this to start a agree/disagree thing about stray cats. I mainly posted it to vent how upset I was about a beloved cat being harmed my someone. And also how my 5 year old nephew was crying himself to sleep because his cat was gone and might not come back. I understand why some people hate "free roaming" cats. But I find it very insulting and rude to blame my sister. I believe that everyone has their own ideas but you wouldn't respond to a thread where someones lizard died because it escaped "oh well you knew it would die sometime besides you didn't look after it right anyway because it got out. It's your fault for not having a proper lock on the cage". And some of you have done that here. Maybe not qiute as mean but still mean just the same. If you wanted to start a debate about stray cats you should have done it in another thread.
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Old 06-12-04, 03:45 PM   #44 (permalink)
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to everyone who is talking about the live traps and all the other humane methods of getting rid of the problem i just have one opinion i would like to add. For the people who have cat problems, it should not be up to them to use their time/money/ effort to get rid of the problem. If you cant control your cat dont get a cat. plain and simple its not a debate its a fact. If you let your cat wander free or escape you have to realize everytime it goes outside it has the risk of dying, whether it gets hit by a car, killed by a dog, poisoned, accidental or intentional. You dont let your snake out to play in traffic, dont let your cat. Its a plain and simple fact
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Old 06-12-04, 05:00 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Me and my ole lady own 3 cats, down from 7. Most of the others died of old age, one was over 18. We never went out and bought any of our cats. They just showed up at our doorstep because most people don't get their cats fixed. The first thing we do when we decide to keep one of these cats is get it fixed, therefore no more strays, or so you would think. Right now there are 6 or more strays in our neighborhood. There would be more if we hadn't had "ours" fixed. I don't think cats should run free either but you you let them run free at least get them fixed whether they be male or female! Our cats are inside cats. Just my 2 cents.
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