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Old 06-09-04, 11:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Most people would love to have a hobby that supported itself, plus brought in a little extra to expand. Exactly what breeding reptiles can do.. If someone is breeding a reptile, obviously they are maintaining it in the best possible conditions, hence they are a hobbyist.. heh
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Old 06-09-04, 11:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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lol... that's ok, Leon.

I totally see what you are saying. It's a tough subject to debate. I don't think any person can define another's "stand point" in the hobby/trade. That's why the blanket statements people throw out bug me... who are they to say?

This should be a good thread though.
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Old 06-09-04, 11:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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just because someone is breeding there herps does not mean they are taking care of there animals.... trust me.... I've seen some breeders operations
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Old 06-09-04, 11:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree Tim.... should be a good outcome
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Old 06-09-04, 11:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Leon, I suppose iam speaking for a majority then. Always someone out there that isn't in it to care for the animals, look at dog breeders.. unfortunatly theres more bad than good when it comes to k-9's.
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Old 06-09-04, 11:57 AM   #21 (permalink)
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V.hb.... Couldn't have worded that better myself
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Old 06-09-04, 12:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well, I seem to have been completely misunderstood!

I meant to say that by the dictionary definition, you aren't "technically" a hobbyist anymore if you make your main income from your 'hobby'. Not to say that even if you do make your income from it, you no longer enjoy what has been your hobby, but the precise word to name what you're doing is no long 'hobby'. You just can't argue that, it's how the word is defined. A pencil is always a writing implement with a solid center that makes the marks. And a pen always has a liquid substance to make the marks. A pen is not a pencil. But both can be used to do the same thing.

Just because the word Hobby doesn't apply, doesn't mean to imply any judgement one way or the other on what someone does. It's just that it doesn't fit the definition. That's what language is. Maybe we need to find a new word for someone who's main occupation is something they love. I think it's fantastic! More power to you if you can do it!!!

Also, I never said all breeders are not hobbyists! I said, if you make your main income from breeding, by the definition of the word, you are not longer a hobbyist, but a professional.

I have an easy word to use to describe me! NO, not THAT word!!! LOL! Precise.

Sorry if I seemed to upset anyone. Just putting my two cents worth in, on a question that I saw come up in Jeff's thread.

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Old 06-09-04, 01:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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"You just can't argue that, it's how the word is defined."

HAHA Is the Websters dictionary the end all be all now? I frankly prefer not to describe myself accourding to a book other people wrote, thanks. But hey, its a GREAT tool for Scrabble.

"Maybe we need to find a new word for someone who's main occupation is something they love. I think it's fantastic! More power to you if you can do it!!! "

Yeah its called college graduate. Not everyone hates their jobs. My boyfriend LOVES going to work, but is it a hobby? No. Does it need a new word? LOL no. It's a job. I love my snakes, but I also sell some once in awhile. Is it a job? No. It's a hobby. Even people who don't make money off their hobby eventually do. If a person gets out of the hobby, they sell their stuff. Money.

"by the definition of the word, you are not longer a hobbyist, but a professional."

Again, if you keep your life strictly to Websters guidlines, sure. If you call me a professional herp breeder because I have had two corn clutches, then thats um, well weird. It's a hobby. I am not a professional. LOL.

This is also my two cents worth. I am a hobbyist, not a breeder, by MY definition.

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Old 06-09-04, 01:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Ok... Marisa...

You ARE a hobbyist by any dictionary definition, as you are not making your living by selling herps, just occasionally selling them. Did you not READ what I SAID?

Also, education does not have anything to do with loving your work. Duh! I have a university degree, a college diploma, and have done the professional studying to attain my insurance licenses. That doesn't necessarily mean that I love what I do! (Although I have to say, I do like it well enough.) But BELIEVE YOU ME! Insurance is NOT anyone's hobby! LOL!!! And as for the other schooling I did... (a degree in Fine Arts with a concentration in English Lit, and a Computer Sciences diploma). Ya, I can say I'm a hobbyist when it comes to art, writing, and computers, as they not my main profession. And reptiles are another hobby. Even when some of my babies grow up to be bred, it'll still be a hobby, unless I quit my day job and did nothing else but breed reptiles to make my money, then I'd no longer be a hobbyist.

So, unless you mean that your two corn clutches provided your whole career so far, you ARE a hobbyist!

And if you don't want to define words by what they really MEAN, then what's the point of speaking the same language as everyone else? If you mean something different when you say one word than I mean when I say it, how do we communicate? If I say 'tree' and you imagine a small furry bunny, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Websters, Oxford, or any other dictionary, as well as most 5 year olds will tell you a tree is not a small furry animal.
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Old 06-09-04, 01:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't like to define what I AM by a dictionary. No.

"Just because the word Hobby doesn't apply, doesn't mean to imply any judgement one way or the other on what someone does. It's just that it doesn't fit the definition"

That's what you said. And what I said was, WHO CARES ABOUT THE DICTIONARY! In this time in the reptile community many people are many things that do not fit into the dictionary.

No one said a tree is a furry animal. You are going way overboard to prove your point that the dictionary is used to define words. We all know this. But thanks for the refresher.

I like your paragraph about your education but you missed my point. You said maybe we need to think up a new word for people who love their jobs. I said why? There is no point in that unless you cannot fathom someone being something that is not clearly definied in the dictionary. THAT was my point. I worded it wrong obviously as it caused you to explain your own personal education and work position. lol.

My whole point is that labelling people is stupid. Some people make an income from reptiles that's enough to sustain themselves, while also having a SECOND income from a day job. So TWO full incomes. Does that automatically mean the reptiles aren't a hobby? I guess if you are obsessed with labelling from the dictionary. But many people wouldn't like to be labelled that way as they have a day job as well.

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Old 06-09-04, 01:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Ok maybe we should all just drop this subject. It's getting kinda heated. Let's talk about water temp for mud turtles.
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Old 06-09-04, 01:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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HAHAHA

This is not heated. LMAO. This is normal discussion.

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Old 06-09-04, 02:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Only Leon gets heated. Leon you think anyone who produces a clutch or corns a year is running a puppy mill for snakes!
But seriousely Leon I think that just because Canadians are finally starting to realise the economic potential of this "hobby" that doesn't mean it will end up as a negative thing. The hobby as a whole in Canada is changes yes, but I say you need to embrace it not get frustrated with it. The hobby may be changing but that doesn't mean your attitude or methods have too. Here at home we are still trying to meet new fellow herpers and help and grow. Your just getting too sincle(sp) in your old age man! lol
Just kidding,
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Old 06-09-04, 02:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Language evolves.

Forum users do not.
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Old 06-09-04, 03:10 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Ok, I haven't read everyone's posts (sorry), but my question this: Why is keeping reptiles considered a hobby anyways?

Breeding or not, they are first and foremost my pets, my companions, and not a 'hobby'. A dog or cat owner who owns multiple animals because their animals have produced litters, typically aren't called hobbiests, they're called pet owners. They enjoy the companionship of those animals

I know is beside the point, but I had to add my two cents.

This debate is otherwise uninteresting to me, but you've all made good points. =)
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