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Old 06-06-04, 11:44 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Basically, it all comes down to the individual- like everything else in life. Some of us are hobbyists, some are businessmen/women, and some of us are both. Simple. There are several shades of grey on this one, and I highly doubt anyone would ever agree on one shade Besides, who'd want to anyways?!!!

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Old 06-07-04, 12:04 AM   #152 (permalink)
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Originally posted by djc3674

BUT..if it were for the true love of the hobby, you would not see the outlandish prices for some of the reptiles out there. For instance..on another site there are Type II Albino Retics for $7,500-$15,000. That is completely nuts IMO. Those kinds of prices make it almost impossible for the average person to enjoy keeping as a pet.
I can't afford to pay that for an animal either but you can't blame the breeders for that, if anything breeders are what will eventually make an obscure variety of animal available for people to own.

At first new varieties will be so rare that the prices will be out of reach for anyone who isn't already a money making breeder. From there it's simple supply and demand, everyone wants the newest morph going but at first there aren't many to go around.

The rest of us just have to wait until everyone and his brother starts breeding them and as the number of them grows out there this will drive the price down.

Personally I hope a million ghost boas are born this year in the Toronto area alone, maybe I could have one then...just think I could make hets! lol!
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Old 06-07-04, 01:01 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Ghost boas ROCK! I hope the price goes down, so I can buy 5 or 6, then I hope the price goes up when I start producing them, ha ha!! J/K.

Yes, is people want lower prices, then they should get off their damn a$$e$ and start producing something themselves. Funny thing is, when these people actually start to produce something (anything), watch how many of them will advocate a less price. Yes. Exactly 0% of them. I guarantee it.
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Old 06-07-04, 04:41 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Yes, is people want lower prices, then they should get off their damn a$$e$ and start producing something themselves. Funny thing is, when these people actually start to produce something (anything), watch how many of them will advocate a less price. Yes. Exactly 0% of them. I guarantee it.
That's a VERY good point Jeff.

While I would love to have even an Albino Ball I most definately can't afford the 3K ish to buy one but if I did you'd better believe that i'd want a signifigant chunk of that back if I did breed them.

I do think that a lot of 'low end' herps are sold for much too little $$. Any kid can save up $50 to buy a Leo and treat it poorly but no one in their right mind would buy a $3K Albino Ball and house it improperly or 'forget' to feed it.

Hrm, i'm giving you props twice in one thread... I believe my little corner of the world must be coming to an end. Who knows, before long I might actually start LIKING you!
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Old 06-07-04, 05:09 AM   #155 (permalink)
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Ha ha, the sky is falling slannesh, the sky is falling!

Cheap snakes are too cheap (IMO) and the real expensive snakes are too expensive (IMO) ha ha! Fortunately, the market will bring down the prices of the super expensive stuff, but unfortunately, it keeps down the prices of the cheaper stuff.

Such is life....

and hey, don't ever feel bad for giving me props, ha ha! No matter HOW many times in the same thread! LOL!
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Old 06-07-04, 05:51 AM   #156 (permalink)
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Would you guys agree that if some of the higher end animals, not morphs per say, would come down in price it would help to cut down on some of the imports? If no one is buying imports then the importers will stop brining them in right? The snake that comes to mind for this example is the Green Tree Python. If more people could afford them then more people would work with them and breed them making them more accessbible for a reasonable price. A lot of people look at the CB price and the import price and they go for the import. Emeralds are the same if not worse, especially in the US market.
On a final note I really thought the comment about when was the last time you saw a rescue Woma was priceless. It does seem to be the case that cheap herps are impulse and expendable herps. There wouldn't be so many unwanted burms out there if they were $7,500 instead of $75. Well I guess I'm kinda all over the place with this post but please try and take something out of it.
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Old 06-07-04, 07:53 AM   #157 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Ha ha, the sky is falling slannesh, the sky is falling!

Cheap snakes are too cheap (IMO) and the real expensive snakes are too expensive (IMO) ha ha!
hurry up and get those prices down on womas. I WANT ONE!!!!
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Old 06-07-04, 08:14 AM   #158 (permalink)
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My whole point was that the idea of any animal or any product at all being "too expensive" or "too cheap" is a bit silly.

Breeders in this case (sellers in general) are not in charge of the value of the product, price is set by market demand, it's not an arbitrary number picked out of the air by the producer, as much as the sell might like it he doesn't have that power. If that were the case then albino burms would still go for $5000 instead of the $150 or so they go for now.

The same applies on the low end. Maybe some breeders have no problem selling a clutch of amel corns for $70 each say, but if some have trouble moving them out because of market saturation all they can do is lower their price to compete. Better to sell them quick at $50 instead than to pay to keep and feed them while you hold out for more.

As more and more people breed the same animal the price will continue to fall, there is no way to prop up the price so that they don't become "disposable" eventually. The only thing that will slow the fall in prices is a reduction in the supply. In other words, if you are getting frustrated that other breeders are selling what you've got below what you feel is the "right" price you should take it as a sign that it's time to start working with something else that's a little more exclusive.

The good news is there will always be a new morph or new variety to go on to and at first the prices will be sky high, get in on it as soon as you can and get out of it before it's not worth it any more. No one can control the prices, all you can do is roll with them whether you're the breeder or the hobbyist.
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Old 06-07-04, 08:38 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Breeders in this case (sellers in general) are not in charge of the value of the product, price is set by market demand, it's not an arbitrary number picked out of the air by the producer,
In this case yes, but not in all cases. Pieds were determined solely by the seller (Pete K.) when they first debuted. He could have charged $20,000, $15,000, whatever, but he charged $25,000. HE set that price. Ralph set the price of his Lesser Platty's and Corey set the price of the Red Axanthic complex. When you produce the only game around, its YOUR choice, and not the market. Obviously the market would't bare a $100,000 but within reason, a seller can charge what the seller wants. Not every breeder is antsy-pantsy to get rid of baby snakes within 4 weeks of hatching/birthing. Some have no trouble keeping them for 6 months or a year or longer if they don't get the price they deserve/want. I like those kind of breeders best! LOL!
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Old 06-09-04, 03:52 AM   #160 (permalink)
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Hey everyone, I'm new to the board and hope I have some useful insights into this discussion. I was an avid herper as a youngster but have just gotten back into it after a decade long break (just finished my degree). Although I don't know much about the herp business, I do know a fair bit about the Internet and buying online (double majors comp sci. & commerce), not to mention I'm an avid eBayer.

Firstly, the handling charge is worst when it's unstated; if someone's agreed to a sale at a certain price, and then halfway through the transaction they find out they have to tack on an extra fee, it's likely they'll feel like they're being cheated and obviously be unhappy about it. On the other hand, you're right that there is a set market price and going over will result in less sales, the extent of which depends on how elastic the demand for YOUR herps are. Also, if you just charge your handling costs into shipping, people will also feel cheated, feeling they are being charged extra underhandedly, particularly if they know what the shipping costs should be like.

The best solution in my opinion, is to keep charging the predetermined market price, but state the handling charge up front, clearly separate from shipping. Sure, people will notice that they're going to have to be paying more. However, when you tell them about this charge, they'll begin to wonder if your competitors are going to tack on this extra charge later or not, and perhaps charge even more for handling. At this point, you will have an advantage since the buyer has more information from you than your competitor, and the perceived risk associated with buying from you will become lower.
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Old 06-09-04, 04:09 AM   #161 (permalink)
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Okay, now I'm just going to gripe about some issues I've experienced as someone looking around at herp breeders lately.

Now, the Internet has obviously brought some definite advantages, namely easier direct selling. However, you have to look at the other side of the coin; namely direct buying. There are a lot of concerns that come up for consumers when they buy direct.

One of the issues is that there is a lot of risk perceived with buying over the Internet. Having to deal with a person never seeing them face to face and having to pay up front, one will only naturally wonder if they are going to become a victim of Internet fraud. I've noticed that many breeders' websites have no means of contact aside from an e-mail address, which does not do a lot for your credibility. Normally, when someone doesn't see a phone number and address, they instantly start looking for somewhere else to buy from.

Jeff, I'm going to pick on you since I'm from BC also so I've been trying to do some research about you. Currently, I'm only looking to buy local, as I'm sure a lot of people do. Had I not found these forums and seen your address here, I wouldn't have known you were in BC and I would have instantly moved on and not considered purchasing from you.

Now, not only do you have to have this contact information, but you also have to be available for someone to talk to. A consumer isn't going to feel any better about having a phone number to call when all they get is an answering machine. However, when you do have the machine on, make sure you identify yourself clearly, and say when you will be available so the customer can call back in case they don't feel comfortable leaving a message. The quicker the response, the better. After all, this is pre-sale contact; if the customer can't get a hold of you before they fork over their money, how can they hope to get a hold of you afterwards in case something goes wrong? Picking on Jeff again, I e-mailed you last friday but I still haven't heard back from you :P

I understand that there's probably a lot of egg-laying going on this time of year, and you're probably pretty busy, but the longer you take to get back to me, the more appealing it becomes to order hogg isle boas and ackies from someone else, even if they aren't local to me :P
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Last edited by hhw; 06-09-04 at 04:23 AM..
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Old 06-09-04, 04:48 AM   #162 (permalink)
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Ack, I was going to touch on some other subjects, but it's late and I have to be up in 5 hours. Anyway, the main point I wanted to get across is that the Internet and direct selling bring up a lot of issues you don't find through more conventional methods. Also, as a smaller business without separate sales, marketing, and customer service departments, you're going to have to take on some of these responsibilities yourselves if you want to remain competitive. Herps is a growing market, and it's only going to get more and more competitive so you're going to want to capture as much market share while you still can. Just a few small things now could mean the difference between selling all your offspring every year for years to come (perhaps even at a higher prices, since the higher demand would allow for it), or having to liquidate everything at cost or lower just to get rid of them.

Anyway, I hope people found what I've had to say useful. If you do, let me know and I'll post some more stuff tommorow. I love herps and am grateful that there's such a great selection in Canada, which I often find not to be the case when buying specialized legacy computer hardware. I sincerely hope you herp breeders all do well in both your herp-keeping and in business. Keep bringing the rest of us great animals! Not to mention, I'd really like Jeff to reply to my E-mail ;P
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Old 06-09-04, 10:43 AM   #163 (permalink)
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Great posts hhw!! But I never got an email from you. I answer my emails every day (even when I go away), and my Inbox has exactly ZERO unread threads. Sorry man, but no email made it to me from you.

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Great posts though!
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