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Old 02-15-04, 02:05 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Interesting posts!

It seems like every so often these activists pop up with another "initiative" - frankly, I don't even listen them anymore. They've been trying for years, and have not really been able to do anything. They really don't have any credibiltiy when it comes down to it.

The reptile industry is HUGE in the U.S. and is growing by leaps and bounds in Canada. These groups will NOT be able to shut down an entire industry - politicians will realize that too many folks depend on the industry for a living.

And, I'm going to take a view on wild-caught herps which may make me unpopular, but here goes...

Let's face it, most of our wild-caught herps come from "economically depressed" countries, where the money that an indigenous collector makes may be his only income. I don't want to take that away from someone, and I don't think they'd like it taken from them.
I think that perhaps there should be guidelines and studies done to manage the wild populations as sustainable resources, to a certain point. Let's not forget the "human factor".

Just my two cent's worth...
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Old 02-15-04, 02:19 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Let's face it, most of our wild-caught herps come from "economically depressed" countries, where the money that an indigenous collector makes may be his only income. I don't want to take that away from someone, and I don't think they'd like it taken from them.
That's one of the findings in the Bennet report from what Dr. Fry told me. And I agree with what you say about the economics of the industry. It is huge in the U.S., take Bob Clark for example. He posted a picture recently on his forums of some of his retic eggs. He has 500 in the incubator and that's from only half of his females. He's not breeding those numbers just for $h!ts and giggles.
The same is beginning to happen here. Money talks. And when looking at the value of some of the specimens and morphs becoming available here, it's easy to see this is quickly becoming big buisness and not just something done by some arm-chair biologists.
As I said earlier there are alot of prominant herpatologists speaking out infavour of the industry. Mark O'Shea appears often at conventions, and Dr. Fry is an out spoken advocate of conservation through commercialisation. These people carry more weight than what's his name. I even think Jesus Rivas is also in favour of the industry as is Rob Bennet.
I do think we will be okay, but I think we should be united and that perhaps this is a good time to think about a national herp organization. Competion, and ego need to be put aside for the good of the industry, our right to keep the animals we love, and for those animals directly.
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Old 02-15-04, 02:28 AM   #93 (permalink)
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I sent something to Mr Laidlaw, although it isn't much, I did touch upon something that nearly nobody touches upon when debating about the keeping of reptiles, allergies. Like i said, it's not much, but I hope it helps a bit.

Hello Mr Laidlaw,

Wnat proof do you have that most reptile keepers keep their animals incorrectly? I will not lie and say that every single person that owns a reptile takes proper care of it, but is this not the same as the keeping of "domesticated" animals? There are some people that care for dogs or cats incorrectly, but does that give anyone the right to punish those that care for them properly and love these animals by strictly prohibiting the ownership of them?I sir, think not.

Another question that comes to mind is, what about the people that are allergic to any animal with fur, feathers, or nearly any animal that swims(such as myself)? What are they supposed to do? Get rid of the only animals they can own and love because a extremely small amount of people keep them improperly?

I find the whole idea of banning the keeping of reptiles is absurd, partially due to what I have mentioned above, and I am sure that most people who are fairly knowledgeable about reptiles(not saying that you are not) would agree with me.

Thank you for your time.
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Old 02-15-04, 02:54 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Good stuff. Nobody seems to mention the dramatic effect habitat distruction is having on wild popultions. People always point the finger to poaching and the pet trade. Could it be because we (Canada & U.S.) are responsible for it in some form or another? It seems to me to be that habitat distruction is the real issue when it come to threatening wild populations of any animal. Don't get me wrong, poaching isn't helping, but there's no way poachers can keep up with the pressures of industry.
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Old 02-15-04, 12:30 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I think what I will do is get some video footage of my 10 year old daughter interacting with her bearded dragon, and interacting with one of my snakes (soon to be hers), her most beloved species, the kenyan sand boa. I'll ask her right on the video what she would think if someone came along and told her she couldn't have her beloved pets anymore. Maybe a video of a 10 year old girl and her daddy bonding with a common interest will be effective. Might go towards satisfying the whole "danger" crap associated with reptiles.

While I'm at it, maybe I can convince her to hold my 7' boa.... now THAT would satisfy media hype AND deliver a clear message that even large reptiles are not *all* harmful.

Just some random thoughts.
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