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Old 02-11-04, 05:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Swampwalker
huh?? pygmy rattlers in Ontario???
Yes, the eastern massasauga rattler (Sistrurus catenatus) is a pygmy rattler. It's native range includes ontario along with north eastern usa.
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Old 02-11-04, 05:34 PM   #47 (permalink)
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While I agree with many of the points raised in the article itself the response to the email I find pretty disturbing.

Personally i'm against wild caught animals going to consumers, but I do see the need for new bloodlines to be introduced from time to time into captive breeding stock.

I would be totally willing to help out with an organization dedicated to having the opinions and views of responsible and concerned keepers and breeders heard and defended.

I find it sort of sad that a lot of the goals these organizations set for themselves are good ones, (I mean who wouldn't want laws passed that looked out for the general welfare of our animals and made sure there were things you could to to stop people from abusing them?) But they go too far with some of their other ideals. (Eat all the veggies you want, Personally I like steak from time to time and no one is going to tell me i'm not allowed to)

But anyhow, point being... I'm concerned enough to do something about it. Nett, would you mind contacting me privately and we can go from there?
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Old 02-11-04, 05:38 PM   #48 (permalink)
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You know what's funny? I haven't had salmonella since i've gotten reptiles. I did get it quite often when I worked at mc donalds.
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Old 02-11-04, 05:47 PM   #49 (permalink)
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There was once a Canadian group formed to help educate against the smear campaigns of others, and prevent reptile bans. It was called CROC (Canadian Reptile Owners Coalition). For a few reasons, the group kind of quit before it really started.

Anyways, I think this is an important topic that should be addressed at each and every provincial reptile club.

As already said, Rob makes a few good points in his article. Also already said, we should acknowledge the good parts of what they say, so maybe they will listen when we try and prove the point that reptiles should not be banned as pets.

The wildcaught trade, as it presently sits is sad in my opinion. The conditions of many petstore reptile departments are not what I'd want the activists to think is the norm.

There is an ugly agenda which is partially hidden from that article. The time to prepare a defense to the impending attack is now. My gut feeling tells me that his report is not going to portray the beneficial aspects of our hobby, and if we don't do anything, that is the only thing the media is going to see.

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Old 02-11-04, 06:29 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I honestly think a "package" of sorts written by the right people would do some good for starters..... which includes...statistics on both reptiles and other very common mammal pets...statistics on salmonella and all the sources you can get it from.....captive care methods described by large scale breeders, small breeders, and your everyday keeper....things captive husbandry has helped us understand in the past ten years that we could probably not have learned otherwise....facts why snakes who are housed in what is commonly accepted as good husbandry are living healthy successful lives...etc. Maybe even a petition signed by reptile keepers from various shows around Canada.... Just a package of amazing information qouted and added to by many many sources which can be sent to herp groups, animal rights activists, government agencies, etc. So they know we have a voice and are ready to challange their bad information.

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Old 02-11-04, 07:18 PM   #51 (permalink)
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K, I haven't read all of the posts here, so forgive me if I repeat something that someone already posted.

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME writing to this Rob moron or the fascist idiots at the WSPA. Write to your Member of Parliament and let them know that fanatics banning our beloved pets will NOT be tolerated, and that you do not support any politician who votes to ban reptiles based on the completely flawed information that the WSPA is gathering to further their cause.

Nett, we need to sit down and plan a real course of action here, maybe at the next TARAS board meeting. I want to get a very clear message to the politicians in Ottawa that Rob Laidlaw is nothing more than a fanatic, and that his "study" is nothing more than gathering the information he WANTS to gather in order to further his cause.

I do see this as being a fundamental responsibility of TARAS, and I sincerely hope you agree. I'm sure that if we, and the other board members put our heads together, we can put through a viable plan to get this fanatic shut down.
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Old 02-11-04, 07:19 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Ryan - Maybe resurrecting CROC isn't a bad idea. I'd be up for that. Would you?
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Old 02-11-04, 08:00 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Scales Zoo: Quote: "The wildcaught trade, as it presently sits is sad in my opinion. The conditions of many petstore reptile departments are not what I'd want the activists to think is the norm".
Good point Rob.

A good start is and i'm sure many others as do is, tell a pet department that their animals are being kept in sub-standard conditions.If their practices are incorrect, give them sugestions on how to fix the problem. I have gone so far as to call a district office when short-falls have been ignored and not corrected. It wasn't long after, it was fixed. We are an important client of the pet stores. If we speak, they will listen. They must be told that their improper husbandry practices are imitated by the unsure new hobbiest.

It is our responsibility as a community to uphold our hobby. We can make a difference. You just need to have a say if you see something wrong.

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Old 02-11-04, 08:19 PM   #54 (permalink)
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One thing that breeders need is a central bloodline registry, as detailed as those used by kennel clubs around the world. The ability to maintain varied bloodlines within the captive population without having to turn to WC would go far in arguing that responsible breeders can help perpetuate a species that may suffer losses due to human encroachment.

One problem with combatting a FUD campaign (Fear - Uncertainty - Doubt), is that it relies on emotional reactions from it's target audience. They pick certain "facts" and represent them in a way that the average consumer can digest and make decisions on without educating themselves in the matter. Reptile owners are a minority, and responsible owners an even smaller minority. When the majority sees an article in a reputable publication that says "The reptile trade is bad." it will be accepted at face value. It's an uphill battle however you cut it.
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Old 02-11-04, 08:48 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Classic
[Scales Zoo: Quote: "The wildcaught trade, as it presently sits is sad in my opinion. The conditions of many petstore reptile departments are not what I'd want the activists to think is the norm".
Good point Rob.
hehe cute...not.
I'm not sure why you think that statement is so "Rob-Like", but I will admit publically, and stand by it, that I would like to see the wildcaught trade changed, and that there are petstores which are not keeping their animals as well as the majority of private keepers do.

Edited - (If you weren't being sarcastic, and just made a freudian slip of Rob for Ryan, then I appologize for getting defensive, and feel kind of stupid)

Quote:
A good start is and i'm sure many others as do is, tell a pet department that their animals are being kept in sub-standard conditions.If their practices are incorrect, give them sugestions on how to fix the problem......They must be told that their improper husbandry practices are imitated by the unsure new hobbiest.

It is our responsibility as a community to uphold our hobby. We can make a difference. You just need to have a say if you see something wrong.

Brian
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You saved me some typing Brian - as the info in the above quote(directly above, not that other one), was kind of part of my point (I didn't go there - but since you brought it up...) Just ask many people on this forum, this thread infact. Doing something about the petstores that keep their animals in substandard conditions is something I've preached about it the past, and something I've personally done in the past.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the above post, but what I was trying to say is that, we, as hobbiests, should maybe do something to improve the areas that could use some improvement, so that people like Rob don't try to do it for us (much more drastically than we would like to).

Edited to add: - I don't want to sound like I'm totally against wildcaught animals, I know of their value in a breeding programs and other areas... But, thousands of poor pet type of reptiles being imported and sold, just so they can die, is not something I enjoy watching at it's current rate.

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Old 02-11-04, 08:52 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Count me in! Unity is the only way we will get our voices heard. Its a real shame how organizations such as peta started out with the right idea and got screwed up somewhere along the way. anyways if u guys do reseructe croc or make a new organization up post it because there no way i'm letting them take my babies.
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Old 02-11-04, 09:02 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Ryan - Maybe resurrecting CROC isn't a bad idea. I'd be up for that. Would you?
Well, looking back on it, CROC was a clever name, but it could imply that we think everybody should be able to own 3 nile crocodiles in their front yard.

I think some kind of Canada wide reptile club, which had representatives from each of the reptile clubs accross the country, would be a usefull tool. Ssnakess.com is kind of serving that purpose, as far as notifying others about new bylaws or other threats to the hobby.

Other names that aren't so good would be : Fangs, Venom, Komodo....

Ryan
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Old 02-11-04, 09:18 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'll think of something. I'll see if I can come up with a name that would fit into the acronym "HEMOTOXIN". The X spot will be a bit of a pain...
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Old 02-11-04, 09:24 PM   #59 (permalink)
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...

Quote:
Yeah, I'll think of something. I'll see if I can come up with a name that would fit into the acronym "HEMOTOXIN". The X spot will be a bit of a pain...

LOL!!!!
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Old 02-11-04, 09:42 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I've said it before; let's just find these lettuce munchers and eat them. We should all sign up for the SPCA or whatever it is and show up at the first meeting with knives, forks and buckets of HP sauce. We'll show them who's at the top of the food chain! LOL!
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