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Old 02-11-04, 08:02 PM   #31 (permalink)
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again everybody is entitled to their own opinion and i dont really like that fact that some people put other people into categories based on what they wear or listen to. we are all the same underneath.
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Old 02-12-04, 01:05 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I have no problems with fashion trends, as stated. People can dress how they want and do what they want; i may find it a little strange but they can go right ahead. What bothers me is all this "im depressed, i hate the world, i want to kill myself, i hate my parents, lets all get high and die of a drug overdose" punk rock stuff. Goth has nothing to do with music (well, not in origins)... rock and roll is from the 50's, gothic is obvious much older.
How is saying that people who go around sulking, hating everything and telling everyone how they want to kill themselves are ridiculed (i already know they are, by many) saying that having brown hair is ridiculous? The latter is a physical aspect determined by DNA, whereas the other is a "i want to be different by being like every depressed teen out there" overbearing way of life.

I don't like seeing people wearing t-shirts saying "F... EVERYTHING!" or hearing these horribly depressing "rock" songs that DO make you want to die.

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For one you admit you know nothing of the band but then state as fact the genre will be ridiculed and "short lived" Says who? You? LOL. Um o.k.
You think, in 50 years, people will have replaced the "king" with this band?

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To say it will be "ridiculed" is absolutly the most small minded thing I have ever heard, not to mention totally immature.
But... it is ridiculed. At least hippies and ravers are trying to have fun or trying to change something. The people to who I am refering just walk around scowling at everybody at trying to make everyone miserable because they are.

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When you grow up and join the REAL world, you'll find people no longer care to stick with "their group" people no longer care what someone wears and will be friends with them as long as they are true to themselves
That's the point. THis whole "I hate everything" is so terribly artificial. It never lasts (how many 50 year olds paint their nails black? maybe some, but other styles are much longer lived) And what world is this you are speaking of? One where some freak on the bus with a black mohawk, white face, black lips, etc tries to scare old ladies by moving towards their faces quickly and yelling?

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normal level headed interesting adults will talk to anyone and be friends with anyone regardless of how they dress
So you'd go up to a guy standing on a street corner, frowning at everything with swear words on his shirts, blasting vulgar, depressing music as loud as possible, and say "hey, lets be friends!"?

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I am a fan of treating people the way they treat me, if someone is cool and decides to wear all red for two years, what the hell do I care?
When did I talk about wearing all red? I think you missed my point completely - i am talking about these depressed teens who try and rub their misery off on other people. People can dress dark or bright hot pink and while I may not aproach them for fun, it wont make a difference in my mind. It's when they sit in hallways listening to disturbing music and telling me about how life is horrible that I start to ridicule. Do you not know these people? Who still have not figured themselves out and are trying to be so very different by scaring people and looking depressed?

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Because we aren't in high school anymore and its not looks that matter...
No, YOU aren't in highschool. Why are badmouthing students? Yeesh. I am in highschool, I take the city bus there and back daily, and with those two things (bus + high school students) combined I see a lot of questionable people and I have had my fill of these "pity me because im on heroin and want an overdose because mommy didnt get my a new computer" teenagers that no longer exist in YOUR "real world" because by the time they get there, they have grown out of this phase.

And then these bands encourage it! It's fine to play about sadness or whatever, but give the youth of today a break.
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Old 02-12-04, 01:23 AM   #33 (permalink)
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"You think, in 50 years, people will have replaced the "king" with this band?"

Are you obsessed with Elvis? There are thousands of other bands that have not done as well as Elvis who have made severe impacts on social and music areas. I am sorry you aren't aware of them!

"But... it is ridiculed. At least hippies and ravers are trying to have fun or trying to change something. The people to who I am refering just walk around scowling at everybody at trying to make everyone miserable because they are."

They are trying to change something? LMAO Have you ever been to a rave? OMG yeah thats all about change. Changing your mental state from normal to high on X or dancing all night. Yeah real world changers. LOL. There is NO differance between hippies, ravers or goth people. One is into peace, one is into getting dancing etc. Its all the same in the end. A lifestyle choice.

"So you'd go up to a guy standing on a street corner, frowning at everything with swear words on his shirts, blasting vulgar, depressing music as loud as possible, and say "hey, lets be friends!"?"

What does this have to do with me talking to people regardless of how they dress? No Zoe I wouldn't talk to an apparent crazy man on a street corner. Your logic is hard to follow and your comparisions are WAY OUT THERE.

"When did I talk about wearing all red? "

I won't even address this in detail. It's painfully obvious you missed my point ENTIRELY.

"It's when they sit in hallways listening to disturbing music and telling me about how life is horrible that I start to ridicule"

So you are saying when someone who you don't like in the first places starts talking to you, you not only ridicule them but you continue listening to both what they have to say and note the music they are listening too? Wow you think HIGHLY of yourself to say you actually ridicule someone else for listening to music, being depressed or even wearing black. Why is it your business?

"I have had my fill of these "pity me because im on heroin and want an overdose because mommy didnt get my a new computer" teenagers that no longer exist in YOUR "real world" because by the time they get there, they have grown out of this phase."

I have had my fill of teenagers, actually adults, people in general.... like you who really have no clue how to be a good person and take people for whats in their heads and not whats on their backs. A teenager hasn't had their "fill" of anything yet. You want to talk about heroin junkies? You have had YOUR fill? LMFAO!!!! You live in TORONTO! I grew up in Los Angeles with three in my family. Don't talk to me about a fill on the city bus. LMAO hahaha your ideas on addicts are silly. LOL. You are talking about pot smoking teens who may try heroin once for attention or a thrill once its beyond that neither music, computers nor parents matter...but i understand your point from your relatively small exposure to true addicts...I guess.....your post was not thought out and your statements in your original post were closed minded, immature, and rude.

"Why are badmouthing students?"

Where did I bad mouth students? Are you reading someone elses post Zoe? LOL. I am bad mouthing your "I am queen and i can ridicule anyone i wish" attitude. It may keep your friends in school but it gets you nowhere in life.

"but give the youth of today a break."

How about if they don't like it, they don't have to buy it.

If you are honestly telling me you get kicks out of "ridiculiing" people because they listen to music, are depressed or wear black...turn the other way. If you don't like drug addicts complaining, don't listen. But the fact is your comments had nothing to do with anything else. You just decided to jump in, like usual, with your "opinion" and state you ridicule people for things you can easily ignore.

Marisa

Last edited by marisa; 02-12-04 at 01:28 AM..
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Old 02-12-04, 01:30 AM   #34 (permalink)
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"Do you not know these people? Who still have not figured themselves out and are trying to be so very different by scaring people and looking depressed?"

Why would you waste time "ridiculing" them if you hate them so much Zoe? Who is more ridiculous...someone doing what they want which may not agree with others ideas...or the person who constantly ridicules and complaines others who don't share theirs?

Yeah.

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Old 02-12-04, 09:26 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I made two references to Elvis. I'm using him as my example because of his popularity and impact. I don't think that that denotes an obsession.

Hippies were trying to change something, weren't they? I wasn't refering to ravers. I'm sure some hippies just followed the style of those who were actually attempting to effect a change, which is fine.

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No Zoe I wouldn't talk to an apparent crazy man on a street corner.
What's crazy about him? He's just dressed in black listening to terribly depressing music and scowling at passers-by. Maybe, inside, he's a charming young man. Makes no difference, it's not someone you'd approach (you as in anyone). You said he's crazy, I don't think he's crazy just desperate for attention.

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How about if they don't like it, they don't have to buy it.
Many don't, which is good. But thousands more are impressionable, and these bands know it.

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Why would you waste time "ridiculing" them if you hate them so much Zoe? Who is more ridiculous...someone doing what they want which may not agree with others ideas...or the person who constantly ridicules and complaines others who don't share theirs?
Like the world ridiculed, huh? Like I said, people can do what they want, as long as they don't stuff their suicidal ways in my face. If they didn't bother me, I wouldn't be bothered by them. Their ideas are "im depressed, my parents dont pay attention to me, i want to kill myself, i hate school, like sucks, i hate you, i hate me, i hate everyone, i hate life" and frankly it grows tiresome. Would you be especially tolerant of and kind to a young guy who frequently aproached you, and others, saying "hey you know what man, life SUCKS. my parents hate me, im just going to kill myself. you should too. you probably think youre happy but man youre being BRAINWASHED. youre just clued out man. i hate life." despite frequent attempts at saying "relax, you'll live longer."? No, because it gets annoying. What I find to laughable is these kids who can seem to find attention nowhere but by telling people about how life sucks and how they plan on killing themselves.

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Don't talk to me about a fill on the city bus.
Okay, sorry, didn't know I wasn't allowed.

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A teenager hasn't had their "fill" of anything yet.
Really? I'd hate to see how I'll feel in 10 years then.

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LMAO hahaha your ideas on addicts are silly. LOL. You are talking about pot smoking teens who may try heroin once for attention or a thrill once its beyond that neither music, computers nor parents matter
No, I'm not. I'm talking about the group that cuts class to shoot up. Then they don't even have to pain the bags under their eyes.

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but i understand your point from your relatively small exposure to true addicts
That was my whole point. You took the world "ridicule" and applied it everything you could (like, brown hair, or red clothes!) I don't care what people do, until they start to try and convince me to do heroin or kill myself.

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your post was not thought out and your statements in your original post were closed minded, immature, and rude.
*shrug* perhaps, but I think my point has been made by now. I contend with these people every day (dont get mad for saying that, i know how terribly exposed your childhood in L.A. was and I'm not trying to compare my childhood to yours because ive lived a wonderfully sheltered life in rural toronto) and as I said, I've had my fill of them. I've had enough of walking into my hallway which is blasting with "death" and "devil worshipping" music. No, I don't CHOOSE to listen to this type of music, it's just there for me to listen to.

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Who is more ridiculous...someone doing what they want which may not agree with others ideas...or the person who constantly ridicules and complaines others who don't share theirs?
Quite the generalization there! I'm not ridiculing people for doing what they want. When did I say "I hate and ridicule everyone who doesn't do exactly what I do?" Who is more ridiculous... some teenager gets sucked into the depressing music hole because they realize they can get more attention by being rude and mean and dressing "scary" and talking about the devil to old ladies on the bus (again, im sure youre buses were much worse.) or the person who laughs at him for being so desperate for attention that he'd so such a thing?

Yeah.

Once, AGAIN. My point is NOT that people should be automatones and do exactly what I do "or else." My point is that can do what they want, I just don't want to hear about the various ways and reasons one can kill oneself, all the while listening to depressing music and lyrics.
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Old 02-12-04, 10:12 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm still not sure what "group" I was a part of in high school, and I graduated 6 years ago. I hung out with the "smokers", which to many would say that I was a "skid". But I also played football, and was also an active member of the band AND the drama club. So I guess I was a "Skiddyjocknerd".

I think with an type of extreme, whether it be from dressing in a "dark" fashion, or having a big stereo in your car, it comes down to wanting to be noticed by others, and perhaps deep down inside some people that do this kind of stuff, are trying to make up for a short-coming in another part of their lives. Just my $.02.

Mousekilla,

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OK here goes.....

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Old 02-12-04, 11:28 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Alright man, you're taking me way too seriously. I never said they weren't musically talented, I couldn't do that because I have never heard of them let alone listened to any of their music. Somehow I just knew that it followed in the tradition of The Cure and Nine Inch Nails from when I was weird 15 year old with issues (though I didn't put on the vampire costume myself).
Ok, stop assuming. First of all, LISTEN to the band first, THEN you say sh i t if you don't like it, this band has absolutely nothing to do with Nine Inch Nails, maybe a little The Cure but still...you are shooting your darts out the window here man.

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Uhhh yeah, early eighies was 20 years ago, 20 later means a new generation. This is now a marketing formula as much the ones used to make boy bands. Same gimmicks, new emotional teenagers to sell to.
Huh...ok, allow me to repeat myself then...actually, let me put this in simpler terms for you just so you understand ok? Makeup, nailpolish, Coloured hair have been around since the early eighties, get it? It's is NOT a new generation, like you said, this whole genre and lifestyle has been around for 20 years. Of course, some things have changed and some genres have branched into different styles, but the foundation is still there.

Like you said, you were NEVER a musician. How you are you comparing this music to Boy Bands just baffles me, once again it just proves the point that you are just trying to stir sh i t up for the hell of it, and once again i'll say: Grow up.

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Zoe hit this one on the head, you're right getting laid is just a welcomed side effect of this pop-goth marketing ploy. The main goal is cash.
I feel like i'm gonna be repeating myself to you for as long as this thread is alive, cash is not the target at hand here man. These guys are musicians, not talentless whores like Spears or Timberlake. These are people who have spent their lives dedicating to their respective instruments to become masters at what they do, all jokes and sarcasm aside, this band is good. I've been playing the drums for over 9 years now, and i want music to be my life, i have 3 bands and i am constantly playing shows around Toronto (if you need any proof, let me know) and the area, this business has gotten so tough because of the self proclaimed Pop whores, they don't make music. So please, do not compare them anymore, it's unfare.

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ZOE :
I have no problems with fashion trends, as stated. People can dress how they want and do what they want; i may find it a little strange but they can go right ahead. What bothers me is all this "im depressed, i hate the world, i want to kill myself, i hate my parents, lets all get high and die of a drug overdose" punk rock stuff. Goth has nothing to do with music (well, not in origins)... rock and roll is from the 50's, gothic is obvious much older.
LMFAO! Do you even know what band we are talking about here? Did you even read the entire thread before sticking your thumb in it? You clearly don't know what punk rock is, and i highly doubt that you have ever heard HIM. They have NOTHING to do with hating the world or overdosing. Like i just said to Mousekilla, GET THE FACTS first and criticise later, you two are taking a blatant stab at a band just because of they way they look and assuming all sorts of crap!!!

First of all, i'm NOT depressed. I have a loving family, a great dad who i go karting with everytime i go back home, great friends, a cat, snakes and above all a great girl who i have been with for almost 2 years now who i love very much. I dislike Slipknot and Korn just as much as you all do, i listen to other types of music, mainly european, mostly metal and hardrock. We are talking about the band HIM here and even though they dress black, they have NOTHING to do with depression or drugs. F#$@ man!!! Why is it so hard to get you people to understand this? All i'm trying to say is that judging someone just because of the way they look is UNFARE, simple as that. Geez man.......
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Old 02-12-04, 12:22 PM   #38 (permalink)
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WOW what a crazy thread, Anyways I myself listen to hip hop/rap most of the time but i do like ALL MUSIC. Depending on what mood I'm in plays a total factor of what tunes I put on, If I just wanna relax and puff a doob than I usually go with the reggae(Bob Marley Jimmy Cliff etc) If I'm crusing down the highway I might go with some Hard stuff like 2pac,Gangstarr,Bdp,Jay-z or even some (OLD)Metallica Or Megadeth, Led Zep, AC/DC, If I'm chillin' with my girl than I'd probably go with some R&B(R kelly,Jagged Edge,Kieth Sweat). People shouldn't be Judgemental on music or be so influenced by it, just take it for what u get out of it, if u don't like it change the channel/station. There is alot of junky music out there(like most top40 pop) but different strokes for different folks.

I do laugh to myself if I see some1 that is super freaky but I've seen it all so it has to be pretty extravagant.

I just don't understand why you would wake up in the mourning and try to figure out how to make yourself uglyer than u already are. J/K inside joke.

WRX
As for Hip hop/Rap not being "Music" your kidding yourself. Rap is samples taken from other "Music" which would make it impossible to say it is not music. Some of the best lyricist/Songwriters are rappers, just look at Jay-z the guy has unreal musical talent.


Oh-ya I like the second one.:hammer:
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Old 02-12-04, 01:27 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Yeah I won't even bother to reply to that because you are more fake and more see through than any goth kid ever has been.....whatever you need to tell yourself to feel like a better person Zoe.

HAHAHAHAHA oh man your reply slayed me.

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Old 02-12-04, 01:56 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I bet you didn't think a simple post of "Which avatar" would turn out like this.
I like pic #2.
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Old 02-12-04, 02:07 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Old 02-12-04, 02:09 PM   #42 (permalink)
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And by the way, i'm not a goth or whatever it is that you guys call it, i never said i was. I don't like to label myself.

I just thought i should clear that up.
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Old 02-12-04, 02:18 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soul_Reaper
And by the way, i'm not a goth or whatever it is that you guys call it, i never said i was.
No offense, but what do you call it?
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Old 02-12-04, 02:18 PM   #44 (permalink)
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It was directed to Zoe since she has been totally incapable of justifying her very "I am the **** and I have been through all lifes lessons so I can make fun of anyone" comment on ridiculing people. The comment did nothing but make her look pathetic and laughable. Hence the reason I will not debate it with her anymore....she cannot justify her silly shallow minded statement in her first post so she is rambling on and on and I am laughing on and on. Typical know it all, I am better than you attitude that is all over every high school. HAHAHA oh it was good entertainment though.

And that's definitly my last post in this thread.

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Old 02-12-04, 02:20 PM   #45 (permalink)
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hey sould reaper, I think Marisa was talking about Zoe... not you.. to me she seemed to be 'fighting' for people to be able to do and act and dress they way they want, whereas Zoe was more like well they get in my face etc etc.... but who knows anymore!!
I say if it makes you FEEL good, then DO IT... if it makes others uncomfortable, well they can leave.

Just my $0.02
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