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Old 02-04-04, 11:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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"Chipping" reptiles

Is the use of RFID tags in reptiles common? And is it expensive to implement?

I can get my cat chipped for a small fee at Animal Care and Control, but I have my doubts that they'd do a python, let alone know how to proceed.

Just curious for the future, as I look into breeding and maintaining accurate records.
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Old 02-04-04, 12:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Bob Clark charges US$30 to microchip any snakes you buy from him. I would assume that the process is similar to that used on cats and dogs, not sure exactly which part of the body the chip would be placed.

www.bobclark.com
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Old 02-04-04, 09:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have been a strong advocate of micro chipping for a couple of years now, unfortunately it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, as has the database. I am happy to answer any questions. I have personally microchipped most all of my animals and two litters of boas.

To the best of my knowledge I have chipped more snakes than anyone else in Canada, and am the only person to micro chip all offspring.

As far as location, neonates are implanted within the body cavity, aprox two thirds of the animal's length. Adults should be chipped aprox 60-75% of the body length on the animal's left side, at the first row of dorsal scales. This is the standard set up by Bob Clark, which I choose to follow, and is consistant with standard locations for other animals, thus is most likely to be found by vetranarians.
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Old 02-04-04, 09:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info

Is your database site down, or is it troubles at this end?

---
-edit-
Ah, it's my stupid ISPs proxy. Doesn't allow underscores in URLs. How dumb of them.

-edit-
Turns out from reading the documentation for the Squid proxy/cache that it doesn't allow underscores in domain names because they violate the standards documents. There could be other who are unable to view the site because of this as well.


Cheers.

Last edited by Cruciform; 02-04-04 at 10:47 PM..
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Old 02-04-04, 09:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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***eeerrrr edit..most all questions were answered by reading your website! Thanks****

When you micro chip a cat or dog, you are normally then included in a database such as petnet or something similar depending on who the vet uses or your request I guess....

Who exactly has a database for snakes, and who can really read these chips? I think its a GREAT idea...I am just a little confused as to who could read them using what, and what database...a personal one? A country wide one?

Thanks for your info! I think its a great way that people can start identifying things permanently and have a way to prove ownership if need be, I can assume its first purpose and the best part is being able to track lineage.

Marisa
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Old 02-04-04, 10:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Or for tracking a disease. Could be very handy.
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Old 02-04-04, 11:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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All vets and most animal shelters can read microchips, as well as individuals who own readers like myself. The database is a private database, for thr reasons described on the site, and was designed to be national.

In Canada I am the only current database exclusively for boids. Avid's pet track will naturally register all species of animal with the AVID chip, but that is only a lost&found type application, not a genetic tracking system. In the US there was the AMERICAN BOA REGISTRY, but I believe they may have shut down due to lack of interest.

Due to initial lack of interest the web based portion of the CDN database has not been implimented. But the structure of the database exists. Once a set number of animals are participating, I will further initiate the web based member's area.
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Old 02-04-04, 11:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm interested Just can't get there.

Did you design the database structure yourself, or is there a good prefab db/interface for breeders?

I was planning on setting up a mysql server with a PHP front end for personal use, but if the tools exist that's one less think to burn brain cells on
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Old 02-04-04, 11:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have designed mine myself, with input from others such as quarter horse abd cattle breeders registeries.

Thanks for the tip I will work on relocating the page. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Any intrested parties I will e-mail or pm the info if you cannot access the site.
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Last edited by Gary D.; 02-05-04 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 02-05-04, 12:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
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No proble I didn't realize the underscore's would be an issue either. in the main part of the domain name, yes, but for a sub-domain I didn't think it mattered.
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Old 02-05-04, 01:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey Gary,

Not to steal your thunder, but chipping or PIT tagging is used widely in wildlife research, and I know researchers in Canada who have chipped hundreds and hundreds of snakes. Some of our native specimens are PIT tagged as per MNR requirements.

Implanting the chips isn't a difficult procedure. They are injected with a large bore hypodermic syringe. However, they are not injected "into the body cavity"- they are subcutaneously implanted. Also, although Bob Clark may have a way of doing it, his location is not a particular standard. Locations have varied from under belly scales or both left and right sides. Not that I would disagree with a standard, but I've seen no evidence of it existing as yet.

One thing important to understand- PIT tags are a great way to identify specimens but they are not tamper proof. They can be removed, reinserted into other specimens, etc.

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Old 02-05-04, 01:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I agree with Jeff.. I hav a few friends that worked and still do for the mnr and have done hundreds of pit tags ...

I myself have found several taged black rat snakes in the Murphys Point area.. there set placement seemed to be about 15 scales b4 the claoca on the side .. and it was subcutaneously implanted as well ..

Its a great idea though .. but there would need to be a large interest in order for it to be in every herpers collection.. It it was not so expensive to do .. i'd defenetly tagg my breeders and babies..

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Old 02-05-04, 08:36 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi Dom,

I'm sure Gary didn't really mean that it is in the body cavity, I think he just misspoke.

Although it isn't really expensive, it is not cheap, either. Depending upon how you buy them, tags can cost $8-10 each or more. For all colubrids and some smaller boids, you'd have to raise the offspring to a size suitable for tagging. Therefore, this will only catch on where there is a lot of interest and enough dollar value to the animals to make it worthwhile. For many species, pattern ID is just as reliable, and cheaper.

Also, there is the cost of the implanting kit (not much) and the reader (several hundred dollars?).

I'm quite sure I'll never PIT tag baby corns! Maybe if I was breeding some rare python... I think I'll stick to tagging only what I need to for MNR purposes.

Maybe I'll offer a new product, though- Jeff's PIT tagging services!

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Old 02-05-04, 10:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The cost should decrease substantially over the next couple of years.
Walmart's movement to RFID, and subsequent requirements for it's distributors to do the same will popularize it the same way they got UPC codes accepted 20 years ago

Major tire manufacturers are putting them in tires as well in order to track inventory. Imagine linking that system to a toll road? Your tires would would act as the transponder on the 407 :P

Though the cost of the chips is about 5 bucks US now, it's expected that they will drop to a nickel each before the end of the decade
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Old 02-05-04, 10:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It's amazing how much the little chips and stuff actually costs considering when you take a dog or cat in (at least in my area) you are paying between 40-80 dollars just for one.

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