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Old 02-05-04, 07:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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now why would everyone be worried if your snakes act normal then dont worry, if they start to show symptons then start to worry.
Problem is, once they start showing symptoms then its too late.


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Personally, I hope they would display proof, and name the breeder on the CBOI as this is a very serious disease and well worth quite a bit of our attention to ensure it doesn't spread
Yep, exactly. Also your right, the only test that can be done requires a dead animal. Thing is, once we know who it is from and their general area, we know where and who to avoid in order to prevent bringing it into our collections.
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Old 02-05-04, 07:46 PM   #32 (permalink)
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so gino why stress your self there is nothing you can do about if you have it and you dont know it, if you practice proper quarentine anyways.

all im doing here is playing devils advocate here

personally i wouldnt worry about it, hell i better start worrying that i have aids now coz an ex has hiv see where im coming from


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Old 02-05-04, 07:53 PM   #33 (permalink)
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so gino why stress your self there is nothing you can do about if you have it and you dont know it, if you practice proper quarentine anyways.
True enough. It just helps to know who is carrying this disease, I guess, so you know what and where to avoid.
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Old 02-05-04, 08:23 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Better extra safe, then sorry.
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Old 02-05-04, 08:37 PM   #35 (permalink)
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wats up eveyone
so did we find out who the breeder is?
this person could be sellin sick snakes and not know it
please let me know who this breeder is

thanx dean
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Old 02-05-04, 08:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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the breeder has been told and he/she responded negatively until these people spill we are in the dark

Last edited by BoAddict; 02-05-04 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 02-05-04, 09:39 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Here's what everyone would be wise to consider:

First, Linds made both a refreshing and scientifically proven point that has yet to be achnowledged since on this forum. Linds reminded us that a ball python with IBD did not necessarily get it from it's parents. Having dealt with IBD personally, and done much research with vets in both Canada and the U.S, and such breeders as Pete Kahl, Tracy Barker and Jeff Ronne, questions that immediately arise for me are namely- how many other snakes are in the collection? When was this snake last in contact, via physical contact OR sharing of any cage accessories (i.e. poop scrapers, water bowls, newspaper, hemostats- yes, EVERYTHING!) with other snakes? When was the snake purchased from the breeder (as ball pythons are believed to only survive a month with the virus)? How did the vet determine the SOURCE of the pythons IBD (for an incorrect determination suddenly compromises his original diagnosis as well)? Also, since dirty hands can even be a potential point of transfer, what other snakes/collections has Snakelover been in contact with?
Until these questions are thoroughly and honestly answered, no critically thinking individual can freak out and point fingers, or we will end up with what someone has already referred to as a "witch hunt". The potential damage of such a hunt is no less violent than IBD to the hobby. For if all it takes is for one person to make a yet unsubstantiated claim in order for everyone involved to start hanging the noose, then this community is far to fragile to sustain itself in the long run. For as unfortunate as it is, a simple fact is that a persons name mentioned in a negative context sticks- even when the claim is later undermined by the truth.
For the sake of all that is good in this hobby, in this community and in the keeping of snakes themselves, i beg you all to be responsible, intelligent, critically thinking human beings. By all means ask questions, do your research, and inquire more deeply into the matter at hand. But don't make any assumptions, and certainly DO NOT take any action until you fully understand what is fact and what is fiction. Snakelover, disease in a collection is never a fun thing. There is, however, a lot to be learned from it, and hopefully an opportunity for all of us to become better keepers as a result. I hope that you will make a supreme effort to better understand IBD and to isolate the source of IBD in your collection, for you and everyone else as well.

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Old 02-05-04, 09:43 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I think "hanging the noose" is very far from where we are at this point. LOL.

My question is, this person said they have one boa as well as other snakes but it didn't seem like they have tons of snakes. If all these snakes were purchased recently in canada, one of them has this...then where did it come from? It can't just pop out of nowhere in someones house right?

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Old 02-05-04, 09:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Good post Velvet Science.

I was going to make a similar post, you beat me too it and did a much better job than I would have.

I also noticed it was mentioned that other snakes are also dying. It seem as if the disease was transfered to other snakes, so who is to say that the first that died is the one responsible.

To name one breeder you got a snake from at this point, would probably later seem like a really bad move.

Ryan
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Old 02-05-04, 09:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I am so sorry for you with this situation you have come across SnakeLovers. Remember that time heals all things.
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Old 02-05-04, 09:59 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It would be nice if the original poster came back and provided some useful information.

And not the name of the breeder, definitely not at this point. This could ruin someone's collection or life's work from the wrong assumptions.

1) Types and numbers of snakes.
2) Vet's report.
3) Quarantine procedures relative to ALL snakes in the collection, including timelines.
4) What disinfectant procedures were used.
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Old 02-05-04, 10:03 PM   #42 (permalink)
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velvet - for this reason alone i think this is the reason that the breeder has not been named.

i personally wouldnt name someone unless i was 100 % certain of who it was.

im hoping that they do 1 more thing and that is put the 1 boa that they have down and get it tested as this will limit the possibilities of who or where it came from.
if the boa came back with saying it had IBD then it could mean that the balls transferred it to the boa or the boa transferred it to the balls it just prooves probable doubt.
should the boa come back clean then it limits the possibilities of where it came from and then the question is this....

if the 1st snake to die is that the breeder it came from ? or could a snake that is healthy now be the main cause of the disease?
(being just say BP's) or (just BOA's)

i hope snakelovers get all this sorted and dont give up on this hobby due to this 1 bad experience.

Mike
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Old 02-05-04, 10:07 PM   #43 (permalink)
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just 1 more point if you follow the BOI american forum this is what can happen when you name names read the post labled
" http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/index.php "
we dont want this to happen in our community

Mike
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Old 02-05-04, 10:08 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Live snakes can be tested for IBD, so says the MK link above.

Ryan
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Old 02-05-04, 10:36 PM   #45 (permalink)
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this is a quote from the ABOI
" it is called a carrier. It is the "HIV" of snakes
Just like hiv....it can kill.
Just like hiv....it can be carried for years. without adverse effects.
UNLIKE hiv.......there is no blood test for it. "

Mike
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