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Old 01-13-04, 09:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
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My small rant

I have to say selling animals on this site and others used to be great. Recently, you get a couple people selling their stuff at insanely low prices, now everyone has to. It seems that if leopard geckos are posted on this site, they have to be $20 or less for them to even be considered sold. Yeah its nice to know they are going to a decent home. But sometimes you need a little extra cash, and spending days and even weeks negotiating prices for you animals isnt worth it. I could sell all my leos at $35 each to petstores in my area. Yes, some will only give $25, but they are sold instantly. My whole purpose of this rant is to simply say that classified ads are a good idea, but it just takes a couple people who simply want to get rid of their animals to ruin it for everyone. I have to sell a bunch of my stuff ..for even cheaper than wholesale, just to get some of the money I paid back. Anyways thanks
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Old 01-13-04, 10:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, I have to say that if you can get a better price at a pet store then you should. But I think that it works well right now, if you're the consumer. If people have to fight eachother for your money then you're going to get a good deal. But normally how it works anyways is, you buy from pet store for high price they only will give you a small price in return to sell it to them. That is why you sell to other people.
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Old 01-13-04, 10:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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At least its leos you're dealing with. Get into something "higher" end and people are even worse. Certain species cost alot to feed & maintain in order to breed but people dont realise this and still have nerve to question prices even if they are below market value.
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Old 01-13-04, 10:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
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For one, if you think the only thing people are buying off this and other reptile websites is leopard geckos, think again. plenty of people including myself buy quality stuff regardless of price. If your stuff is high qaulity and I want it, I am buying it.

Another thing is you want to make some money back, but on what? leopard gekckos? Unless you are selling dozens you can never make enough money to break even with them. Your money for crickets, enclosure, the leopard, and electricity will go far above any profit.

My feelings are sure, if you are selling things that are often seen yes you'll have to lower price. If you are a small breeder with not much behind you, then yep you'll have to lower price. But if you are a person who has shown consistant qaulity animals, has a good reputation and high qaulity animal in the ad, people will pay for qaulity.

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Old 01-13-04, 10:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Anders, I understand exactly what you are saying. The thing is.. if you don't want to be frustrated by this fact (because it's a fact, people are cheap ), you need to buy your animals at a low prices or better plan your life and keep the animals you buy and not have to sell them.

I sold a couple of reptiles in the pasts years on different classified sites and price is rarely an issue with serious buyers, serious buyers who know what they want will rarely try to lower your price, unless it's outragoeous.

I now learned that you need to put a fixed price and if people make ridicoulous offers, don't even reply. Some people just love to deal but they don't even have the money, they get a kick out of lowering a price simply to pass time.

If you're selling a 60$ reptile, you're better off selling it at your local petshop for 25$, than selling it for 30$ to someone who is cheap !

I could go on and on, because I did observe some really pathetic behaviors from certain buyer, but this is your rant, not mine
But don,t worry, it's like tha t with any animal, any price,,, and even any other merchadise.. try selling a user VCR, you'll be as frustrated.

So I'll say... good luck !

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Old 01-13-04, 01:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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All I have to say is welcome to capitalism. The principle some of you are missing is the law of economics that says an item isn't worth a cent until it is sold. In other words market value is determined by what the market is willing to pay for a given item.

At the start of a season prices are at their peak, as the season goes on the left over stock costs money to house and store and in the case of livestock it costs money to feed them. It may be worth while to sell the animal for less to cut your losses. The trick is to sell them just cheap enough to get rid of them all quickly, before they start costing you money while you hold out for that higher price.

As an example we'll use a clutch of hatchling corn snakes. Now let's say you sell them for $40 each and you sell all but 2 of them right away, after say 4 meals or so. The remaining two you are then stuck with. It costs about $52 per year to feed a corn snake so the question is how long are you gonna wait before you just give these snakes away because they are actually costing money? After 40 weeks they've already cost you every dollar you were hoping to get for them so it makes sense that as time goes on during the season the prices on the left over stock will fall. The prices must fall because the vendors or breeders want to cut their losses and get that stock out the door, they would be stupid to hold out for the higher price. The last thing they want to do is sit on it, pay to feed it and have no room for new stock the next season.

The lesson is to be competitive at the start of the season, move all your stock and not rack up costs from keeping your prices high and being left with the stock.
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Old 01-13-04, 02:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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All I have to say is welcome to capitalism. The principle some of you are missing is the law of economics that says an item isn't worth a cent until it is sold. In other words market value is determined by what the market is willing to pay for a given item.
Well said. Supply and demand. There are a lot more people producing animals in Canada today then there was 5 years ago and it's only going to get worth.
Think about how many people on this site have albino boas and hets and ball python albino hets, it's nuts!
What do you think is going to happen to the price of thoese animals in 5 more years?
If you're into herps in Canada to make money you're in the wrong country. We don't have the population so therefore we don't have the market.
Sure some people have made money and some still will but it's getting harder and harder to get a piece of the pie.
So I don't think it's the classifieds or the websites or the people selling the animals I think it is the amount of people producing animals.
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Old 01-13-04, 02:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I am in no way in this for profit ... this summer I was fortunate enough to break even (cost of food, enclosure, approx. electricity vs. sales) however, such pet stores continue to sell beardies at $99.99 each, and they cant keep them in stock for more than a week or so ... yet on here people struggle to sell them at $50 each .... Veiled chams go for $80 -$100 in stores and are typically sold within a month... ICULIZARD has been trying to sell them for more than 2 months at $25 each and still has plenty available ... My whole point of this rant was to say that as much as I would love to simply sell my animals on reputable sites like this one, I just cant afford to keep holding on to them till they sell. And MARISA, I used leos as an example .... even high end reptiles are hard to sell on here
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Old 01-13-04, 03:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm not sure I understand your point... All I know is that when you are producing a product (if you're selling it it's a product) your goal is normally to create the greatest difference between the price you sell it for and what it cost to produce it as well as maintain it until it is sold. That is true whether you're ambition is to make millions or to break even.

The way you maximize the difference between costs and the money you get back is to sell out quickly in order to eliminate the cost of sitting on your stock. This may mean that your initial asking price is lower than most other vendors but if you have the most competitive prices you will likely sell out first and by eliminating the cost of maitaining the stock you may end up netting the most money in the end.
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Old 01-13-04, 03:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think reputation plays a big part. I don't even look at classified ads unless I've got some idea who the seller is. After you've built a reputation, your quality should do the talking and your prices, if they're resonable, should be respected.

(Not to say that you're not a good breeder )

I felt a similar frustration this summer trying to sell some snakes at a show when the booth across the hall had the same animals for 1/2 the price. I decided I'd rather chance it and rely on my sales skills rather than "give" my stock away. I did some trades and some "smooth talking" and I ended coming back with very little at the end of the show.

Breedeing is half the battle, but sales is the other half and a lot of people fail to realize that...
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Old 01-13-04, 03:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes, herps, particularly higher-end ones, are a tough sell in Canada. Most of the serious Canuck breeders who work with really high-end stuff don't even bother with the Canadian market - too many whiners, "tire-kickers", and "welfare herpers", lol!

Speaking from experience...

...For example, in the mid-90's I produced what were likely the first <html><b>Tarahumara Mountain Kingsnakes</b></html>, <html><i>Lampropeltis pyromelana knoblochi</i></html>, to be hatched in the time they were going for between $400.00 - $500.00 each U.S., or more...Do you think I could sell any, even AT PAR with the U.S. price? Even though they were most probably the only ones available in the country?...HAH!

I ended up wholesaling them out...for next to nothing...

That's herpin' in Canada for ya!


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Old 01-13-04, 03:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think theyre is always gonna be "a market" for reptiles in Canada we are just starting to get into morphs that the usa has had for a while and people are gonna always going to be producing new morhps so basicly the older morphs are gonna calm down to a more reasonable price and people are gonna keep producing new morphs or bring in new reptiles at higher prices, never ending cycle if u ask me
if there was a beggining of time. What was before it?
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Old 01-13-04, 04:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The laws of business are the same whether it be higher end or lower end. You have to find the right product and the right market. Anything other than is a bad investment.
If you can't find anybody to buy your million dollar product, it is a bad investment.
If you enter a flooded market and expect to break even, it is a bad investment.
Lesson? There are no sure things in business. Except one. Just as you're trying to get the most out of someones pocket, rest assured they're trying to do the same to you.
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Old 01-13-04, 05:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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anders_240sx -

Just for the record, since you decided to bring our name into this post......we had 180 Chameleons. We have had clutches hatching every 3 or 4 weeks....we have not be trying to sell the same ones for 2 months. They are not our main focus here, obviously everyone knows that Bearded Dragons are our main interest. We are not having a hard time selling our stock (they actually have been selling very quickly) and we are saving the remainder of the Chams for the show.
We breed the Chameleons to help cover costs when Bearded Dragon sales are low......

I would rather sell low to Pet Stores than sell high-colour morph dragons to people that want the colour, quality and good bloodlines but don't want to pay for it. In this business you always have to deal with the people that say....."well, I can go over to that table and he/she is selling them for $100 cheaper". or "I've decided to buy from this person instead because she will deliver and is selling them cheaper............Well, that's because you're paying for different quality stock, but not everybody understands that.

I understand your can be hard to sell stock (not just on the sites, also any other avenue you try) We deal with this situation by producing Chameleons for so cheap, so that way we can hang on to our dragons until we get the asking price. We also make ourselves competitive by having 3 or 4 sales a year and providing services for our customers that are not common in this industry.

Good luck selling your animals......I do feel for you. Selling can sometimes take all the fun out of breeding.

Bringing color to your collection.....

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Old 01-13-04, 05:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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well said ICULIZARD

the way i see it is if you have something that people want people will pay

lets say i have 6 snow boa's how often are they gonna sell? id say maybe 1 every 6 months maybe a bit less if lucky
to make it in reptiles in canada you have to have the right blend of high end and lower end animals so that you have some cash coming in to support everything else, not saying you are gonna make money but you might break even this way.
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