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Old 01-13-04, 07:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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there's the art of breeding and the art of sales. you will have better luck selling in person then selling online.
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Old 01-13-04, 08:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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how many people that are seriously into breeding do you think break even anyone know a rough ratio?
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Old 01-13-04, 08:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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less than 15 % imo

its still a hobby for most of the serious breeders
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Old 01-13-04, 08:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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That depends on what you consider "serious"

I am not even sure still at this point what the issue is. Canada obviously has a smaller population, and like others have mentioned anyone who has gotten into this hobby thinking they would sell out in a week for whatever price they want, or make huge money, is at this point S.O.L. Especially with things like cornsnakes and leopard geckos. This is why I don't understnad why people constantly must breed everything they own. I mean does Canada really need 400 people breeding normal leopard geckos or amel corns? LOL I bred my snow corns last year, but now they will have this year and possibly next year off. Just because you have doesn't mean you must if you know what I am saying

But I also believe reputation plays a HUGE part. You can't honestly think you'll sell whatever you are selling at top dollar if no one knows who you are. You need to establish buisness and personal relationships over a few years of time and be consistantly providing the HIGHEST qaulity animals you can to constantly have quick sell outs if you are selling privately.

If you believe your stock is some of the best available no matter what species it is, then don't drop price. If they are high qaulity, and others agree, they will sell eventually. This is why I feel its very important for people to stop breeding together anything and everything they have, in the long run it will eat your money up and just ad more blah qaulity animals to the market. Only offer and sell the best of the best and quickly you will find things to go better imho.

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Old 01-13-04, 08:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Marisa...

I really agree with what you said....however, I just have one question.

You said: "This is why I feel its very important for people to stop breeding together anything and everything they have, in the long run it will eat your money up and just ad more blah qaulity animals to the market. Only offer and sell the best of the best and quickly you will find things to go better imho."

Now my question: Take Bearded Dragons as an example. Do you think people should stop breeding lower colour morphs or normals and stick to the high colour morphs that demand the higher prices? I think this is a difficult subject. On one hand.....you want all your stock to be the best and only sell the highest colours. On the other hand....I feel that some people do not have that amount of money to spend on a reptile (considering all the other hidden costs involved) and therefore you should provide different levels of animals so everyone can benefit.

What do you think?

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Old 01-13-04, 08:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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ah I see was just curious im just trying it out this season as it while be my first I just have an all around love for it dont want to make a profit it would just be nice if I could do my hobby for next to nothing. and im just trying to dip my fingers into everything, normal leopard,hypo tang,blizzards,jacksons chams and antherstic corns and bps if Im lucky like ive said ive only been in it for 8 months but my collection has grown quickly. its just I figure start now 16 by the time im 20 I should have a nice little collection. but I cant make a profit everything is gonna get thrown right back into the reptiles :S but thats cool the more and more I read the more and more complicated it seems, from what I am getting you need to be open to a large consumer base to make anything doing it. Dont mind my grammar it was written in a rush.
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Old 01-13-04, 09:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I understand where you are coming from, it's not about free enterprise, or about reputation, it's about fair market value. You simply want to get what your animals are worth, not make a profit or break even for that matter. It's not a matter of supply vs. demand bringing the price down, it's some guy just flogging his animals and hurting the whole hobby for it. Yes you can hold out for a month or two and prices may be back up, but you have to feed and care for your animals in the mean time. And if someone else caves you're in it for even longer. In the end people start believing that's the going rate for said animal and then the price is hurt for the long run. Even for the bigger breeders are forced to sell for less and pet stores and jobbers aren't willing to pay as much, thus it hurts the entire hobby. And yes it's definately worse for the starter species like leos, corns and even boas, than the high end herps. I sympathise.
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Old 01-13-04, 09:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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couldn't agree with you more
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Old 01-13-04, 09:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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ICULIZARD - I see what you are saying. Let me clear up my personal thoughts on that...I don't specifically mean "high end" by morphs. By high qaulity I mean only the best of the best. If that means the best nicest looking normals or the coolest new morph...I think people should use a little more discretion when breeding things. That's not to say I meant your specific animals, not at all. Or even people giving it a try or two. Its just the large amount of "lower end" qaulity stuff doesn't really need to be there ya know what I mean? that would bring prices up for everything because you are getting high qaulity. Just like I said before does Canada really need me breeding MORE snow corns next year just because I can? Probably not. They are already *everywhere*. When another year comes I want to try and get some keepers then sure I will, but I wont just keep doing it because I can. That's all I really mean.

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Old 01-13-04, 10:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I simply posted this based on a market value standpoint ...personally I find it erroneous (in some cases) to base looking at an add simply on reputation. For instance, I dont sell much stuff at all... however to the people I have sold to I have heard nothing but compliments.... what makes a good reputation on this site?.... perhaps recomendations from others... or what you have personal experience with. If I look a new member of ssnakess.com than I would assume they have little or no experience ... however take me for example ..I have been breeding geckos since I was 13...I am 20 now, but only joined this summer... I now have plenty of various reptiles such as R. Leachianus, various Uromastyx, a Cribo, cresteds, leos, and grandis days to speak of only a few ... So I guess my question is how does one gain a reputation on a site such as this ?
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Old 01-13-04, 10:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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As far as reputation goes in this community, I base it on content of posts. People can post 40 times a day (some do!) and have nothing to say/add. When I read a "smart" post by a member, I remember who they are. When I see a member posting pics of superb animals, I remember who they are. I didn't mean to say reputation in the community sense as much as in MY opinion. That's more what I was getting at. But I also listen closely to what people say about breeders they've dealt with and take it with a grain of salt.

At the end of the day, the "best" breeder in the country might only have 8 posts... or none! But when someone is producing high quality animals, word will spread. The same goes for the shotty breeders.

But to address your first issue, I agree. It can be VERY frustrating to have to settle for less than your animals are worth.

Good topic though.
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Old 01-14-04, 12:25 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Reputation and perception are factors but that is sort of beside the point because I thought this was about "cutting the other guy's throat" on equivalent product. I hope I'm not being too repetitious but I have to restate the fact that it is impossible to have to sell a product for less than it is worth in the sense that the price a product sells for DETERMINES what it is worth. What else can determine value other than the actual selling prices of that commodity?

It is ridiculous to complain about someone selling a similar product for less than you're asking. It is not unfair, it's competition. If someone wants to sell his stock first he will have to sell it for less (this of course assumes the quality of the stock to be equal). Fair is not the price the seller wants or the price the buyer wants, fair is what you negotiate. This is also why it is foolish to complain about the buyers that want to talk you down in price. The agreed selling price is what counts and that is what sets the value of the product. Your product ISN'T worth what you are asking for it, it is worth what you GET for it.

If you want to sell anything successfully you have to learn and accept that buyers want the best price they can get regardless of the work and money you have put into the product, it's irrelevant to them. You need to remember too that the other guys out there selling the same thing you're selling don't care about you either. They are called the competition for a reason and if they decide to flood the market with cheap stock because that's what suits them at the time then they're gonna do it, if it screws you then that's your **** luck. Sound harsh? Well it is. Once again, welcome to capitalism.
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Old 01-14-04, 12:28 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Good post Mousekilla.
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Old 01-14-04, 12:35 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I agree Mousekilla.

There is a big differance between a buyer trying to offer a seller what the animal is worth, and a buyer trying to buy a certain sellers animal for what ANOTHER seller is selling for. That's where a lot of problems come in. Some people don't understand that not all (example here) pastel ball pythons are the same, hence slightly different prices. Some might have outstanding colors while others are ho-hum, and a buyer cannot possibly expect someone to drop their price to eqqual the price of the ho-hum ball python. This is another reason why I feel its important to purcahse the BEST breeders you can, and only breed whats HIGH qaulity. That way you can ensure the real herpers are going to be able to see your qaulity and over time word gets around.

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Old 01-14-04, 01:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Throat cutting and your generalization of capitalism are not the norm in a market economy though. Notice how all 3 gas stations on your corner have the same price, or how groceries at Safeway average out the same as at Sobey's, even electronics retailers who are always offering the best blow out pricing seem to have the same products at the same prices? A common base line is essential to any stable and successful economic model. Yes, it's a free country, and individuals are free to charge what they will and flog what ever they want but they are still hurting the hobby, especially when it is such a small and specialized market.

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