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Old 12-17-03, 07:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I hope this is not a threat to the future of herping...

I just read this article about our friend Dr. Bryan Fry. While I'm proud to be acquainted with someone who is truly on the cutting edge of reptile research, I have serious concerns about the way the press is presenting his findings. Here's the article:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1216075937.htm

It contains absolutely nothing that we have never read before here, but please read it and tell me what you think - then re-read it pretending you hate reptiles and want to get even the common ratsnake banned. See if you get the same sick feeling that I get.

OBVIOUSLY, Dr. Fry cannot abandon science just because someone might use it as fuel to get herps banned - the research and the findings are as important to our understanding of reptiles as ANY other research. It just has me worried, that's all. We as herpers are going to have to become that much more active with educating people than ever before to be allowed to keep our beloved creatures.

Either that or, this will become a strictly underground hobby.
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Old 12-17-03, 07:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yikes! When you put it that way, it does sounds scary. In fact, it was one of those things I was worried about when Dr Fry published that paper. First thing I thought about was, what's gonna be classified as venomous and what's not?
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Old 12-17-03, 07:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow.

Yeah, I don't like the way it was written either. I'm anxious to hear Dr. Fry's comments about the article.

I hate interviews. I've read a few of ones done on me that turned out sounding terrible, not like this one mind you.

I do think in the future, this will be brought up somewhere to try and enact or push a bylaw. It is up to us to educate people about harmless snakes, and provide facts to do so in a good way.

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Old 12-17-03, 07:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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well crap, that sucks. I hope herps don't get banned at all. America seems to be a "follow who ever advances first and then take credit" for it country....
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Old 12-17-03, 09:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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wow how wierd would it be if my corn got re labled as venomous actually maybe since rats and corns are closly related. I hope they don't ban reptiles all togther. Hopefully people won;t responded in fear and kill any snake they see. saw it at my cottage once kids found baby milksnake and were stepping on it soo sad.
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Old 12-17-03, 09:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't know much about venom. Actually o.k. I know less about venom than probably everyone here. LOL. But I don't think this will cause anyone to label them as venemous/danger to humans.

Look at other species who have toxic properties to other animals, but not humans. I.E. cane toads are poisonious to creatures that eat them aren't they? But pose little to no threat to humans.

I dunno. Frankly these PETA/reptile hating jerks should keep themselves busy trying to ban something REALLY dangerous like smoking.

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Old 12-17-03, 09:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
maybe since rats and corns are closly related
I just want to clear this up, since this is a pet peeve of mine.

Another name for cornsakes is red ratsnakes. Corns are a species of ratsnake, so not only are they closerly related, they are one and the same.
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Old 12-17-03, 09:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Who cares...

Considering no one has ever died from a rat snake bite i dont think any current non venom snakes will be banned.
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Old 12-17-03, 10:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I can sorta see what you mean, this could be twisted out of context to mean all snakes are deadlly, venomous creatures. It would take some ignorant politician to take it up as a cause though for it to drive herp keeping in Canada underground. We already have some dumbass local bylaws in nearly every city in the country that limit the size of our collections and which totally benign species we can keep, and you can point to that and things like this article or the odd one in the newspaper as reason to panic but I honestly think it's as bad as it's gonna get already. I said the same thing when there was someone panicking about so-called "guardianship" laws, it would suck if that happened but I don't have any reason to believe that it will.

The reason I don't think we need to panic is that it seems the hobby is getting progressively more popular, maybe I'm wrong about that, I can't back that up statistically but it looks that way to me. I figure the more popular herping gets the less likely someone will want to stop it. It has become an industry and if anything the governments of this country ought to support that. Why persecute someone for running a profitable livestock based enterprise? Lots of people have a problem with the beef and poultry industries but there is too much money in it now, too many stake holders to stop it, no matter how many good reasons there are to do so. Look at the fossil fuel industry for another example of that, tons of reasons why we should stop it for the sake of the human race itself but there is too much money in it.

I guess my point is that it does us no good to fret over every little thing that is bad PR for the herpers or the herps themselves. Some snakes ARE dangerous, some keepers ARE idiots and that will always be the case but what we should do is just stay the course we're on. We should all be safe and responsible keepers so it isn't us that is to blame for bad publicity and we should keep investing in the industry. Buy and sell enough snakes and the market grows. The bigger the market gets the more influencial it becomes and that's what we should be doing, growing the industry because it will give us the influence to maybe divert some attention back to those who own other potentially dangerous things like pit bulls and snowmobiles. I don't advocate picking on those people either but better them than us I figure. I hate that we have to attack this problem in a "dollar democracy" sort of way but as many people who have checked out their local bylaws have found out, logic and reason don't always win the debate.
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Old 12-17-03, 10:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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oh opps ..thx for clearing things up vanan. I dunno i can see the human society getting involved aren't they agaisnt reptile keeping or something i could be wrong wasen't there like a huge discussion about this a while back on ssnakess i dunno i can't remebering hearing it somewhere and while the herp trade is get bigger and bigger the human society is alot bigger and if they want to ban reptiles they sadly have alot more power than us but hopefully they'll just stay out of this and mind there own business.
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Old 12-17-03, 10:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I wonder what natural venom-like qualities that the common house Cat or Dog have, not to mention the toxic effects of being bitten by a human...it does cast a shadow over Reptile keeping for sure if some uneducated anti-reptile moron uses this research in a bias light.
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Old 12-17-03, 10:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That article could have some serious ramifications on herp keeping. especially in the hands of herp fearing people.
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Old 12-17-03, 11:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It is scary if someone who is uneducated takes this research the wrong way but that is why education is so important, as well as being responsible herp keepers.

MouseKiller just wondering you say snowmobiles are dangerous? I've been doing it since i could walk basically, never had an accident. Like with keeping herps, It all depends on the person in control. just my 0.02 from an avid snowmobiler....
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Old 12-18-03, 12:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm actually pointing out other hobbies that have potential for danger. Snowmobiles are potentially dangerous as are large constrictors and hots. The difference is that you can just licence your sled, or even your gun for the love of God. But snce more people are into snowmobiling and hunting than keeping potentially dangerous species of snakes guess who doesn't even get an opportunity to act responsibly?

That is why I said that growing the market for snakes is the best and maybe only way to keep the stupid laws away. Cars, smokes, guns, booze, all these things kill way more people than snakes ever will but there is too big a market for them to just outlaw them, you can only hope to regulate their use and hope no one gets hurt. The same thing would happen if enough people had enough snakes. Thishobby will become a less attractive target politically the more money it generates and that would be true even if snakes were as dangerous as those things I mentioned that are legal now, which of course they aren't. How many times have you heard of a guy getting drunk and killing his wife with a cobra? lol!
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Old 12-18-03, 02:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Hmmm.... could turn out to be bad news if the wrong people get behind it.

A bunch of us here must have had numerous Elaphe bites. Anyone ever have ANY effects of ANY type from a rat snake bite? Makes you wonder...
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