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Old 12-18-03, 02:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Point well taken MouseKiller, thanks for the clarification. I taken a few bites from ratsnakes as well as other elaphes never once had a bad reaction.
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Old 12-18-03, 02:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I really do not see anything coming out of this in a bad way myself. Most of the laws and misperceptions on herps is generated by myths and "wifes tales" IMO. Also, the idea of governments establishing laws towards "monitary leaders" is correct. If anything, I see a good future due to the findings. And heck, if push came to shove, which one of you would not break the law in order to keep something????? (No need to answer!)

As for pushing the correct information in herpetoculture and the surrounding establishment, good deal. Nothing wrong with striving to make the herp world a better place for all. I just do not see anything becoming illegal or less tolerated because of it.
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Old 12-18-03, 09:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well, I'm not too worried about the ramifications on the hobby. This is why I always like to see a definition of 'venomous' in the text of a law- something medically significant to humans.

But, I see a sudden demand for Elaphe antivenin! I'm planning to start milking our corns and rats to produce some, starting next week. I'm sure my neighbour will let me use her horses....

Sorry, couldn't resist:-)

BTW, I believe ingesting cane toads can be fatal to humans.

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Old 12-18-03, 10:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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When Bryon was discussing his findings online in a chat he mentioned that North American ratsnakes, king snakes and milk snakes had evolved to the point that they nolonger were producing venom. So it's safe to say that we have nothing to fear for these snakes. Now I'm not saying that they won't cause a reaction, but you won't get a reaction from venom because there is none.

Jeff I'll take 10 of those antivenom vials please.
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Old 12-18-03, 10:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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It scares me because the first thing listed in the City of Winnipeg By-Laws regarding which "exotic animals" are banned is "all venomous reptiles"....
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa, 1.0 Mexican Black King Snake

A "Choose Your Own Adventure" Hamlet would be nice; To be, turn to page 73.
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Old 12-18-03, 12:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You could look at it that way, you could say that since this research almost erases or renders obsolete the previously accepted distinction between so called "venomous" and "non-venomous" herps that our currently legal animals may suddenly be lumped arbitrarily into the out-dated "venomous" catagory, putting us in violation of the law.

On the other hand, since this research has destroyed the venom distinction between the legal and illegal species it could be argued that the such laws are invalid unless they go on to define the term "venomous", sort of the way Jeff has above. Without that definition the term itself is antiquated and essentially meaningless making the law unenforceable even in cases of potentially lethal species. In other words this research may actually benefit us in that it should, by making the old laws unenforceable, creating a sort of legal vacuum. Hopefully this will encourage lawmakers to seek the facts so they can make new laws that are up to date with current scientific knowledge of snakes and venom.
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Old 12-18-03, 03:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I think it just means there are more hots now that's all. As long as people are keeping cobras, gaboons and puffs and don't think we have anything to worry about. If someone is aloud to have a rattle snake who cares if they have a rat snake.
No worries,
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Old 12-18-03, 03:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ok so let me see if i got this right...that article pretty much said that i could get envenomated by taking a damn corn snake bite? That makes no freakin sense! How's that even possible?

I agree with what Invictus said about the weird gut feeling when i was reading the article, but i won't go as far as to say that the hobby will be affected by it. Classifying a corn snake as venomous is just plain ridiculous. Something like that would never be approved i think.
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Old 12-18-03, 05:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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There are still more non-venomouse snakes out there than there are venomouse. All this means is that some snakes that were once thought of as safe may now be considered dangerouse. However, like someone already mentioned no one has ever died from a rat snake bite.
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