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Old 12-17-03, 06:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Attitude of herpers

I just have to vent a lil so bear with me. What I just saw today was a sad scene. This is regarding the recently closed thread.

What I saw was misinformed individual who had a different sense of reasoning and I saw people who should have been informative, slap him in the face and asking him to snap out of it. What happened to common decency and the camraderie amongst fellow herpers. If someone acts stupid show em the right way. Just wanted to say that I was very disappointed in the outcome of that post. We could have harboured and taught this individual something good but instead we jumped down his throat. Very sad.
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Old 12-17-03, 06:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Thank you Vanan. I'm 100% behind you But then again, some of his posts were out of reason as well...

Mike
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Old 12-17-03, 06:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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.I actually agreed with the content of the thread.

peace out
Brian
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Old 12-17-03, 06:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Sometimes unreason draws more unreason. It's sad. It's even more sad that it's sometimes necessary to get a point accross.
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Old 12-17-03, 06:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well you told us he was not a troll meaning he would do it. So even after 20 posts telling him he shouln't do it, he still acted dumb continuing to try to find someone who would teach him certain things, even if he was the posts on the regulations of his town and the impact that would be given on the snakes he would try to keep meanwhile to "practice". In my book, you do not practice on vulnerable snakes.
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Old 12-17-03, 07:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
he still acted dumb continuing to try to find someone who would teach him certain things,
So you're saying that it is wrong in mentoring with an experience hot keeper? Was what he was trying to do really wrong? Maybe he should have asked about how to keep hots FIRST but he did still say he wanted to learn.

As for using a "vulnerable" snake, it was recommended to him by someone. He didn't just come up with it.

If it sounds like I'm on his side, in a way, yes! I'd much rather stay close and follow along and make sure nothing goes wrong than just shun him and leave him to his own devices. We all know that would be detrimental.

I did not wish to get into any further arguement but just wanted to bring up the above points.

Besides, one of the reasons I have disrespect for some hot keepers is that they don't practise what they preach. Quick to prevent anyone else from keeping hots but what makes em special that only THEY can. This is not a personal attack on any particular hot keeper or hot keepers in general. Just some of the stupid ones I've come across.
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Old 12-17-03, 07:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I couln't care less if he kept hots, in fact I am pretty sure he would get good at it too. It was the way he said he wanted to get to keep hots. I feel the same way you do about hot keepers. But just the way he brought all this didn't sound like he would do the right things. So better prevent than deal with consequences. He didn't listen to what most of the people told him, only took 1 or 2 replys to waht he tought they meant.
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Old 12-17-03, 07:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Vanan states it simply in his other post... when someone posts an uneducated question, it must be answered with education, not an uneducated low answer ( stated some other way, but I'm jsut to lazy to check ). It was childs play and it could have been avoided.
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Old 12-17-03, 07:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't think any decent hot keeper would have responded to him, I know no good ones would have helped him. 'Most' hot keepers I know have standards too high to just take on someone to train, a person that showed dedication (just in asking repeatedly and not going ahead) would find the person they were working would eventually give in. However someone that comes along wanting to milk hots, keep hots, self-immunize, and doesn't have a clue to any of it gets the cold hard facts and shoulder real quick.
 
Old 12-17-03, 07:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Personally, I feel that although the responses were a bit rude. They were just seriously, at first, trying to give him so REAL advice. And I found that he didn't like the advice given and started up with idle threats and non constructive posts. Personally, when I ask a question, and I do it alot. I make sure to take ALL responses and seriously consider them, if there's a response I don't like (which is rare because I like staying civil) I simply ask for clarification, or I don't respond to it. That's all he had to do and that's all everyone else had to do, was just stop posting. But oh well, it's over and done with now...

Jenn
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Old 12-17-03, 08:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vanan
As for using a "vulnerable" snake, it was recommended to him by someone. He didn't just come up with it.
I think I should interject here, because I believe this specific misunderstanding to be my doing; however, I didn't use the word "vulnerable."
This is a common recommendation for someone who is interested in working with hots and it makes a lot of sense. Working with a spastic colubrid will give you an idea that you can never really be in complete control of the situation but you can work towards tipping the scales in your favour.
When I suggested mock-milking, I certainly did not intend for him to cause the snake any undue abuse, rather, he should attempt to gently and carefully retrieve and restrain the snake and act as if he was in the process of performing an extraction (that is, trying to handle the snake without being bitten). The scenario is mainly to teach the prospective keeper the dangers of routine maintenance as well as proper restrainment with a snake that is likely to strike. Imagine taking all the precautions and doing everything correctly and getting tagged by the harmless snake, usually that is all that is required to convince the keeper that maybe it isn't a good idea to replace that harmless colubrid with a lethal serpent.
Cheers,
R
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Old 12-17-03, 11:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I believe I'm familiar with the post in question, and I have to say I was torn between two possible responses. Either aggressively encourage the person not to post any similar requests, or calmly return to another forum and keep my reaction to myself. I opted for the latter, but I'm still sitting here a little stunned.

I didn't catch any responses or followups, but if the descriptions are accurate, I know the type. I do try to respond initially by educating, but when those suggestions are rejected in hostile tones I tend to respond likewise.

WM
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Old 12-18-03, 12:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I went back and read up on the last 4 pages of that thread. The first few pages, to me, were respectable enough and helpful enough for a common person to understand and catch the drift. After a while, it seemed to me that the thread starter was just not wanting to understand and not realizing the seriousness of what folks had to say. Honestly, no matter what that as out of our hands as people to help him out.

A few folks did seem to get haist, but was also after some very disturbing comments made by that person. As for a couple TOS rules over stepped, I saw nothing all that wrong. A person will only take in what they want, and to me it seemed 99% just.

I used to be in Muay Thai, if anyone knows what that is. I went to Fairtex for a while, and the instructors there were very hard on us as students. To me it creates a bit of urgency to respond as serious or not. That is what I saw go on there. Either take it or leave it. No one HAS to be nice...to me that invites folks to remain in a state of stupor. "It is OK for me to be dumb, as I see folks are just OK with me that way." Heck no. Wise up or take the heat. For a staement though, we did start off as respectable and trying to pass our suggestions. After a while it was just a way to say hey, "You are not intelligent enough to do this"...and I whole-heartedly agree.
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Old 12-18-03, 10:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't know if the attitude is bad or not (I will admit there is some elitism in the community), but when people give good advice and some one ignores it and can't be bothered to do their own research to verify the advice given and gets upset with the advice given and starts making threats (idle or otherwise) you can expect the attitude towards the person to be a little short...

Here's a perfect example. remember snakemann87? he would ask advice and ignore it and actually end up putting his pets in danger.
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Old 12-18-03, 03:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey guys. Sorry about some things i said yesturday i got kinda carried off. I did not meen anything bad what i said and will take that pic off my site. The only thing i would like to say is every 1 tought me something there and that is every one will try to poot me down or in youre case sugjest not to get it untill i'l have atlest 10 years of experiance, but if i will sill continiu then i'l know that thats what i really wana do in my life. Thanks again every 1 enjoy youre day
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