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Old 11-05-03, 07:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Shane,

Thanks for responding on behalf of the administators and I must say that I agree with your goals and in the end, as many have said, it's your site and you make the rules. I did not intend to put the Mods down in anyway or to organize some sort of rebellion in the membership, I simply wanted to discuss the application of your stated rules. I didn't mean to step on any toes so if I have done that by starting this thread I appologize. Having said that though I think it's clear that in the General Discussion forum the basic rules of the site apply except the topics aren't restricted. You have acknowledged that you can't keep people's views out completely so I have to wonder why the politics/religion rule is there at all. What is the need for a rule other than one resticting personal attacks?
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Old 11-05-03, 07:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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If there was truly a “no religious discussion” rule, then I would never have to defend my beliefs, and I would not be banned now.
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Old 11-05-03, 08:08 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I assume you're talking to me MouseKilla,

You will never change someone's Political or Religious beliefs by arguing the other side with them. Those are the two things that people feel most strongly about if they express an opinion. You might be able to sway someone who doesn't have an affiliation one way or the other, but you'll never convince someone with strong Christian beliefs to give Satanism a try and you'll never make a Reform party member hop on over to the NDP. People simply do not discuss those two topic rationally. You can start out trying to, but even in this thread where we haven't directly discussed anything specifically religious or political people are getting heated.

You definatlely can change people's minds when they've been given erroneous (sp?) information about herps. That's why this site exists in the first place. However keeping a herp has very little to do with Faith. Which is what what most Religion and politics are based on. Belief and faith in the ideas of the church or political party of your choosing. Those people have already chosen thier stance. That doesn't make them closed minded as you've implied. It means they've made a choice and don't appreciate people trying to tell them they're wrong.

As i've said before in this thread. this site is run by the owners and they are allowed to make and enforce any rules they like. Those topics have been disallowed. If you don't like it, discuss them on another forum and use this forum for what it's intended for.
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Old 11-05-03, 08:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Its exactly that....to restrict personal attacks. Alot of the topics on here can sometimes border line on adult content. Being that a large percentage of our member base is under the age of 18, we decided along time ago to protect those members where possible. I guess the goal is to keep underaged members from seeing what we believe is unsuitable. From our past experiences, and trust me, we are not new at the web game, religious and political posts rarely come out as pleasant in the end. The problem is that all it takes is one negative comment from one negative individual and the whole thing snowballs. I personally am one of those ppl that just dont read and respond to posts like those...and i think a couple ppl mentioned the whole..just dont click idea. I try to remain unbiased where possible and only read the threads for potential problems.

I should mention that i wasnt suggesting that you were attacking mods...i think i projected that wrong..sorry. What i was trying to do is explain how things are defined. We get alot of backlash sometimes and it comes with the job i guess. Im sure those who know me will say that i am actually quite a nice person and very easy going. Like i mentioned before, i hate having to edit and police..but again thats the job. All i can hope for is one day to have the site working to the point where my job becomes obsolete. Nothing would please me more then to not have to step in. But if you will allow me one comment i would like to say this. I belong to other boards. I belong to other types of web based forums, and am a webmaster myself. What has always blown my mind is the inablility of herpers to really see the big picture to the hobby. This hobby although in recent years has made leaps and bounds...is still on the whole not understood. In some cases its frowned upon and grossly and unfairly stereotyped as being wrong...or un-necessary. With this in mind, why can herpers not unite. Its you verses the statisquo. Members of this hobby will one day i hope realize that herper unity is the real goal here. Once thats achieved then we can make the world understand its importance. In the meantime all i can do it sit at this screen and shake my head. Unite for your own self worth, for the hobby as a whole, and mostly for the animals that we all love. Everything in the hobby depends on our ability to show the world what it truely is to be a herper.
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Old 11-05-03, 08:38 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I totally aggree Shane, herping itself is a political activity. We are all representatives of eachother to the rest of the world. One irresponsible keeper reflects badly on all the others. The same thing happens in discussions that aren't necessarily only political or religious but just contentious, like this one for example. This discussion isn't either political or religious but it is just interesting enough to have the potential for stupidity. I believe you when you say that you wish you didn't have to police at all, your lenience toward those that have occasionally crossed the line proves what you say. We've agreed that the rules are there to prevent the personal attacks but what I'm saying is forbidding certain, select topics isn't an effective way of doing that. The way to do that is something you are already doing anyway which is removing those who can't be civil. You would know better than most of us with your experience that some people can behave like idiots no matter what the topic of discussion is.
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Old 11-05-03, 08:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Exactly
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Old 11-05-03, 08:58 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I completely respect the moderators but that doesn't mean that I agree with every decision or rule they make.

First of all I just wanted to point out that in the desvription of the general forum it says, " Anything goes.. (If there isn't another forum for your thread)" things like this can be very misleading and if I didn't know better I would think that ANYTHING was aloudd to be discussed here.

Religion and politics are two things that everyone is effected by daily. I see people talking about politics here regularily and on occasion religion. I, myself, enjoy learning about different religions. I also like to hear peoples oppinions on politics but I can't stand when people begin to turn nasty, making personal attacks, ignorant comments or just say stupid things to purposely make people angry.

I think that the moderators should enforce a one-warning system. If people make personal attacks etc. on the forums they should get one warning. If they do it again then they should get banned.

If people are going to do anything to purposely offend someone then they should at least do it in private and in respect for the rest of us. If they really have a bone to pic with someone then that should be done in private aswell. We need to open our eyes and realise that as individuals what we do will effect EVERYONE.

The moderators obviously work very hard but I think a plan needs to be made and rules need to be posted so that as a community we can fuction properly. Also, If we are going to complain about something I think that we should make suggestions on how the mods can make things better. They have lives outside of this forum and is really alot of work. If we can help 'em out, I think this forum could become a better place.

Just my oppinion.
Sean

PS: please excuse any grmatical errors etc.(or if things are weird, silly) as I just finishes 4 hours of sports and it is fairly late.
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Old 11-05-03, 09:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
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BECAUSE.....There is no winning or even logically discussing Religion
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Old 11-05-03, 09:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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ah, like wow man, ah, like this is like sooo yesterday, ah like lets move on or like go shopping, or somthing like that.
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Old 11-05-03, 09:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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lol
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Old 11-05-03, 11:10 PM   #41 (permalink)
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These are topics that get very heated very quickly. A hot topic for sure, and MouseKilla, your initial post was brilliant. In order for this site, like others, to remain 'status quo' and 'PC', you stay away from hot topics. The less feathers that are ruffled, the better. God (oops) only knows that there are enough ruffled feathers (on occasion) on this site without the need to bring religion or politics into the fray.

Last edited by mykee; 11-05-03 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 11-05-03, 11:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I think Marisa brought up a very good point.

When heated topics arise, i see many people who are quick to say "if ya dont like it, dont read it".
The fact of the matter is, are members dont have to read it, however the mods do...
I for one, cant stand talking about religion, cant stand talking about politics, know nothing about cars, nor could i stand picking up a magazine on any of these topics and reading about them.

I didn't accept this position to spend hours of the day reading off topic threads like "my girlriend dumped me" or hurting my eyes going through pages of threads on religion looking for one "out of line" sentence or someone acting improper.


i joined the moderation team because it's needed if things are to run smoothly, i believed in jeffs vision of what he wanted it to become and because i enjoyed reading about reptiles as well as having enough time to lend a hand.
I now find myself with little to no time to really enjoy many of the "herp-related" threads this site has to offer.
I now find myself spending waaaay to much time in the GD then id like, as well as not enough time in other forums where i think the best knowledge is shared.

It must be nice to have the ability to ignore any thread you wish.
for us, we have to visit queensnake if we want to know what that feels like.
Maybe we should scrap the GD all together? While were at it, the joke forum too??? believe me, ite been considered....

But no, Jeffs been persistent that these stay up, as he knows all you guys and girls like em! And hes here to please.
SO, is it not fair to ask that a few topics not be discussed??? to make our lives a little easier???
In my opinion, this is the most smoothly run website with the largest amount of non-herp related material out there.

We try to keep as many threads up on the forums, but a few topics have NEVER ended good, so why allow them?
if every time a certain topic of a thread led to a flame war, we'd ban those topics as well. luckily we have a great group of members who do a fair bit of moderating themselves and it hasn't really come to that.
Unless its an outright conflict with the TOS, every deleted thread is a judgement call.
If you cant understand that, then thats toooooo bad, causes its going to remain that way.

Its interesting how a majority of the complaints come from members who arn't site supporters.
Your support goes to keeping the site up and running, not to any of the mods or jeffs car insurance (no matter how high it may be now ).
Ppl should feel lucky enough that jeff pays out his a$$ for a site that has turned into a discussion mainly on "someone getting dumped by someone" , or "opinions on sleep disorders". let alone to have to deal with ppl constantly challenging the way the site is run.
if we were charging a fee to be a member, perhaps we could reason with you. luckily no ones being charged a fee.
So be thankful this site is here and just respect the rules.
This isn't directed at anyone one individual, its just my opinion as a moderator on a subject that has been dragging for way to long now.

We can outline the rules time and time again, believe me , it doesn't work 99% of the time.
even if it popped up in bright flourescent letters each time you logged on, the amount of stuff that ends up in the bad threads forum is unbelievable!!!

theres always going to be ppl who are going to have flame wars on religion, post links to porn sites, swear like mad men in there posts, and we'll delete em as we see them.
that's it.


gvg
(sorry for the long post)
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Old 11-05-03, 11:35 PM   #43 (permalink)
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theres always going to be ppl who are going to have flame wars on religion, post links to porn sites, swear like mad men in there posts, and we'll delete em as we see them.
Umm, err, ahh, where are those porn site links by the way?

Edited to say "there for a friend"
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Old 11-05-03, 11:39 PM   #44 (permalink)
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lol brian, your too much! lmao
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Old 11-05-03, 11:49 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Nicely put Grant
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