border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Community Forums > General Discussion

Notices

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-03, 08:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Lisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Trenton
Posts: 6,075
Send a message via ICQ to Lisa Send a message via MSN to Lisa Send a message via Yahoo to Lisa
SCARY Michigan animal laws

New pet laws for Ann Arbor in MI.
this is from http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/ind...7343285890.xml


New rules for pets proposed

Changes on hold due to city officials' concerns over enforcement

Tuesday, October 21, 2003

BY TOM GANTERT
News Staff Reporter





Ann Arbor residents who walk their dogs in public without "suitable equipment" to pick up after them could be ticketed and fined under proposed sweeping changes to the city's animal ordinance.


The revised ordinance includes a ban against keeping reptiles as domestic pets and would make it illegal to separate kittens and puppies from their mothers before they reach 8 weeks old.

It would also require that pets be given "human companionship" and not be left unattended for 24 consecutive hours.

At a public hearing Monday night, the City Council, by a 6-5 vote, postponed a decision on the revised ordinance after council members said they needed more time to review the proposed new rules.

City Council Member Mike Reid, D-2nd Ward, said if the changes are to be taken seriously, it will cost money for enforcement.

"How are we going to fund all of this?" Reid asked after the meeting. "Who is going to pay for the administrative costs? Or are we left with an ordinance with no teeth?"

The revised ordinance originally included language that would have outlawed keeping animals at schools because of health concerns and because critics say the animals end up being unwanted.

Council Member Heidi Herrell agreed to remove that language if it stood in the way of the council approving the ordinance.

"It's mostly common sense and we've written it down," said Herrell, D-3rd Ward, about the revisions, recommended by a task force that she led.

The 38-page, revised ordinance could be passed at the next meeting Nov. 6. That will be Herrell's final meeting. Herrell, who is well known for her animal activism, is stepping down after eight years on the council.

Monday night's public hearing was kept open and will resume Nov. 6.

This ordinance amendment is considered Herrell's last hurrah. The changes she proposed were wide-ranging and dramatic:


Any motorist who injured an animal would be required to call the police or the Humane Society. Herrell said that way an official could come out and put the animal "out of its suffering."


People would be required to tell the Humane Society about any stray animals they take in.


Dogs and cats under the age of 8 weeks couldn't be separated from their mothers, except to be given to the Humane Society.


Dogs couldn't be kept in a fenced area of less than 150 square feet of open space. Animals would have to be kept in an enclosed passenger compartment inside the car or within an "enclosing device" if kept outside the car while traveling.


Wolf-dog crossbreeds and animals taken from the wild would not be allowed as domestic pets.


No person could possess more than 12 domestic animals, excluding fish.


"Dangerous" dogs would be classified Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3. There are specific guidelines on what a dog has to do to be classified and what the consequences are. The higher the number, the more dangerous the dog. For example, a Level 3 dog would be one that has bitten or attacked a person on two or more occasions, caused serious injury or death to a person, caused serious injury or death to another dog by attacking it while the other dog is on the property of its owner or under control of its guardian, or one that has caused any physical injury to more than one person during a single incident. Immediate impoundment and euthanasia are possibilities for a Level 3 dog.

The ordinance includes a schedule of fines for violations, which include both civil infractions and misdemeanor criminal offenses. For instance, failure to carry equipment to pick up after your dog after it does its business would be a civil infraction with a $50 fine for first offenders.

The people responsible for enforcing the ordinance expressed concern about whether they have the staff and resources needed to follow up on the changes.

"If it leads to significant increases for calls for service in this area, I have no additional resources other than my two animal control officers," Police Chief Dan Oates said.

Josephine Kelsey, the executive director of the Humane Society of Huron Valley, said she supports the ordinance in principle "but there is a lot of work to be done."

Kelsey told the council members on Monday that the Humane Society doesn't have the money to follow up on the extra duties called for in the ordinance.

"We simply do not have the funds," Kelsey said.

City Council Member Joan Lowenstein, D-2nd Ward, said she supported the changes in the ordinance and was educated by a lot of the material Herrell presented on the dangers of keeping some animals as pets, such as reptiles.

Mayor John Hieftje cast the deciding vote to postpone the vote.

"I have some concerns," Hieftje said. "I was happy to see it postponed."

After the meeting, Herrell broke down in tears while discussing the disappointment of not being able to get it passed.

Tom Gantert can be reached at tgantert@annarbornews.com or (734) 994-6701.

-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-

It sounds like herp keepers are in trouble in michigan, and did you see the laws on the minimum size lot for a dog? I would suggest writting the city council to complain/educate the council on herp info.

Also some of the stuff sounds suspiciously like brian's fears are coming true. Who's ever left a cat for a weekend? No more mice ect at school. animals have to be restrained in a vehical (my dog loves to stick his head out the window).
__________________
Neo-Slither (Snake fanatic mailing list) http://<br /> http://groups.yahoo.c...p/Neo-Slither/

May you live in interesting times.
Lisa is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 10-25-03, 08:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
SerpentLust's Avatar
 
Join Date: May-2003
Location: Vancouver Island
Age: 33
Posts: 1,799
Country:
Send a message via Skype™ to SerpentLust
That's frightenning. Very very frightenning.

Jenn
__________________
"A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing."
SerpentLust is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 09:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
enso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Midwest, USA
Age: 41
Posts: 454
People need to get their priorities straight. I can't believe that they would even waste their breath on many if not all of these issues when there are REAL problems in Ann Arbor, the state of Michigan, and every other city and state in the union. Animal activists like this Heidi Herrell are nothing but fanatics. I'm one state away in Wisconsin and this is just way too close to home. Start concentrating on wildlife conservation, and environment preservation if you really want to help the animals. #%$@!!!
__________________
The path is the goal.
enso is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 09:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Lisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Trenton
Posts: 6,075
Send a message via ICQ to Lisa Send a message via MSN to Lisa Send a message via Yahoo to Lisa
Enso, being so close you should write. Seriously. One thing I would suggest is offering a different proposal, something a little more realistic. Something like: no venomous, no snakes over 10', no lizards over 6' (nose to vent). Those rules work well for toronto, and are a little more enforcable. Also a grand father clause would be nice.
__________________
Neo-Slither (Snake fanatic mailing list) http://<br /> http://groups.yahoo.c...p/Neo-Slither/

May you live in interesting times.
Lisa is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 09:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
JoeBradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Ringgold, GA
Age: 41
Posts: 173
Send a message via AIM to JoeBradley Send a message via Yahoo to JoeBradley
I am not for any kind of length law. Would it be based upon the actual size of the animal or the potenial size of the animal. If they go by potential size, is it going to be there average size or is it going to be based upon the record size. What if yours gets bigger than average?
If they go by actual size of each individual pet then they are going to end up with a lot of unwanted animals. An iguana is not say 6 inches from nose to vent when a baby but will definately get much bigger. What happens to the animal when it outgrows the law.
They definately need to leave venomous alone because that hits home to me.
I live in GA and we have some pretty good reptile laws (except for the fact we cannot own native non-venomous such as a corn or rat snakes) I do not know what a good reptile law would be but I am sure there is one out there.
Joe
__________________
1.0 Bearded Dragon, 0.0.1 Canebrake, 0.0.2 sulcatas, 0.2 Eastern Diamondback
JoeBradley is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 10-25-03, 09:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
unknownclown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan-2003
Location: Everett Wa.
Age: 48
Posts: 684
Country:
Send a message via AIM to unknownclown
thats just crazy!!!!
__________________
If youre happy and ya know it slap your face!
unknownclown is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 10:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
enso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Midwest, USA
Age: 41
Posts: 454
Lisa, when you say write, do you mean write the city council of Ann Arbor, Michigan state legislature, or Wisconsin's? One person can't help but feel very small in all of this. I keep thinking about the 11,000+ deaths by gun in the United States (the highest of any country on planet Earth), multiple species on the endangered/ threatened list, and keep wondering why people even begin to think about any of these petty laws. Totally confounded.
__________________
The path is the goal.
enso is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 10:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
eyespy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep-2002
Posts: 2,125
enso, one person can make a surprising bit of difference sometimes. I've shut down 298 pet stores for neglect/abuse issues by writing, calling, and generally annoying the heck out of local politicians and animal control officers. I've convinced city council and the county selectmen to table motions to draft stricter animal control laws in my own state and frequently write to politicians in other areas to lend my support to herpers in other areas.

Get together with like-minded people so your voice becomes louder and harder to ignore and who knows what good you can accomplish. You'll never know unless you try.
__________________
The Zombie Mama is here!

http://www.thebeardedlady.org
eyespy is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 10:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
enso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Midwest, USA
Age: 41
Posts: 454
"You'll never know unless you try." eyespy you speak the truth as always. 298 is amazing. Need to hire you as my lawyer.
__________________
The path is the goal.
enso is offline  
Old 10-25-03, 11:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
RepTylE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: near Windsor, Ontario
Age: 56
Posts: 996
I live close to michigan, I hope that whatever drugs those lawmakers there are on don't make it on to the streets here. As for the herp angle, it is never stressed enough that we all have to be responsible reptile owners so that our image isn't tarnished to the extent that we attract attention of these zealots. It doesn't matter where you live. It's better to keep the bad stories out of the papers.
__________________
Why are there braille dots on
the keypads at drive up ATMs?
RepTylE is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 10-26-03, 12:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
Syst3m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2002
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 610
Send a message via ICQ to Syst3m
Blah its just Ann-Arbor. Its a big college town. University of michigan is there. Bunch of hippys live there too. Its the one city in michigan that Marijuana is decriminalized. They are just a bit flakey, I don't give it must time before some law student takes them to court over it.
__________________
Snakes? I just like to teraform!
Syst3m is offline  
Old 10-26-03, 08:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
Lisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Trenton
Posts: 6,075
Send a message via ICQ to Lisa Send a message via MSN to Lisa Send a message via Yahoo to Lisa
Pete: Saying it's just Ann-Arbor is like looking at an infection in your toe and saying oh, it's just my toe.... These things have a habbit of spreading.

Enso: Write Ann-Arbor city council. Stop the madness before it takes hold. One person can make a difference, a single vote can make the difference between a good out come and a bad out come.

Joe Bradley: I don't like length laws either, but I would base it on actual length, not potential, this makes it easy and realistic to enforce. As for venomous, that's a double edged sword. An alternative to banning them out right would be to issue licenses. But venomous do get a knee jerk reaction and there are lots of snakes out there that aren't venomous, I'd rather lose the right to keep a snake that I can't really handle then ALL reptiles.
__________________
Neo-Slither (Snake fanatic mailing list) http://<br /> http://groups.yahoo.c...p/Neo-Slither/

May you live in interesting times.
Lisa is offline  
Old 10-26-03, 08:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
RepTylE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: near Windsor, Ontario
Age: 56
Posts: 996
Maybe but this kind of crap can take place anywhere. There are people that take great joy in chipping away at the freedoms that we take for granted. I was just pointing out that it is best to not give them the ammunition to use against us as herp owners.
As long as we take good care of our exotic pets, it is no one's damned business how many we have or what kind of herps . Once they impose limits they can lower the numbers arbitrarily or take the rights away entirely.
__________________
Why are there braille dots on
the keypads at drive up ATMs?
RepTylE is offline  
Old 10-26-03, 09:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
JoeBradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Ringgold, GA
Age: 41
Posts: 173
Send a message via AIM to JoeBradley Send a message via Yahoo to JoeBradley
Lisa,
the only problem I see with actual length is that people will buy reptiles as babies and then the state will have the burden of finding homes for these pets once they get bigger than the law allows.
You must not be a keeper of venomous. We enjoy them as much as other reptile keepers enjoy their leopard geckos. If kept and cared for properly they are as safe as a kitten.
There does need to be some type of law I just cannot think of one that would work.
__________________
1.0 Bearded Dragon, 0.0.1 Canebrake, 0.0.2 sulcatas, 0.2 Eastern Diamondback
JoeBradley is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0