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Old 10-24-03, 06:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Canada/USA border

I live right above the US border. If I were to go into the US and buy a snake (or a number of reptiles) could I come back across the border without having to pay fees or have permits? Or does that stuff only apply to cites animals? I was thinking of getting animals like colubrids, geckos, boas or pythons. I did an internet search but I thought i'd better ask here, as the info might be more current.

-Tammy
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Old 10-24-03, 07:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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...

Depends on the animal and its level of endangerment and level on international protection. ALL animals will need paperwork to travel across an international border. Some more than others.
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Old 10-24-03, 08:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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US has a lot more rules than Canada... Check out the US Fish and Wildlife website. They'll have all the info. Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I checked, no import permits were required for animals (except chelonians - turtles), just an inspection was required, if that.

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Old 10-24-03, 08:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure you require permits for all CITES 2 animals. All boids are listed as either 1 or 2. CITES 1 animals cannot cross the US/Canadian border, regardless of paperwork and permits. Non-CITES animals (such as corns) I believe only require inspection by fish and wildlife, under a certain number (I think it is 4 animals?). If you exceed that number you need a permit of sort as you are considered commercial, not private. As Wu-Gewi said, your best bet is to check with Fish & Wildlife, that way you know exactly what's up and there will be no unfortunate surprises.
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Old 10-24-03, 10:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok, thanks. I will be getting a fairly large order of reptiles when I do go over there, so I'm guessing i'm going to need a permit. When the time comes, I'll do a check and make sure everythings legal.
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Old 10-24-03, 11:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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All herps going into or out of the USA are supposed to be inspected by US fish & wildlife.
There is a fee for this inspection it's 55US for non CITES and 75US for CITES.
These inspections are generally done at what are called "designated ports" Unfortuately there aren't any "designated ports" on the border, they exist only at large US airports.
Inspections can be arranged at border crossing points, but this must be done at least 48 hours in advance so that an officer can be dispatched from the closest USF&W office.
As Linds points out, they are sometimes leinient on small quantities of NON CITES pets.
However, you're really supposed to have both a USF&W import/export license($50 per annum) and also a special permit called "Exemption from designated port"....This is because you are facilitating a transaction at a place other than a "Designated Port" This extra permit is only 25 US, but you have to apply in advance for both the license and exempt from des, permit. It takes a few weeks to get.
Quite a few of us Canadians now have all this stuff.

There is quite a bit of variability in how customs & fish & wildlife officers handle people that don't have all this.
Sometimes, if it's only a few, they will inspect only and let people go. Other times, they will inspect, and charge you for the inspection. Other people with any quantity, will probably find even if they don't have the required export license, they might be charged for it on the spot , in addition to the inspection.
Customs and USF&W have a load of power and it's their prerogative on exactly how each non conforming case, is handled.

Many people simply bring animals out of the US and declare them with Canada customs, since normally that is the first officials you see.
Providing they aren't CITES, this doesn't break any Canadian law,and they'll take your tax money and even give you a receipt, however, you've already broken US law at that point by removing them from the US without an inspection and filing of a 3-177 form.(they do that during the inspection)
Canadian customs officers won't tell you about your breach of US law, because it's not their jurisdiction. They may not know anyway.
Problems only arrise, if you are turned back with your animals, or if they call and expert on the US side to confirm your animals aren't CITES.
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Old 10-24-03, 11:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well bloody hell, this all sounds pretty complicated and expensive. Thanks for all the info. Hopefully, i'll be getting most of my herps in Canada. (Hey, it's probably cheaper for me up here anyways) If I do go down there to buy some, I'll be sure to stay legal. Thanks guys.
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Old 10-24-03, 11:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I should point out that CITES transactions can take place at border points as well(a few of us have done it). Of course the CITES documents must be with you at the border and they get validated there by either Canada customs(if you're exporting to the US from Canada) or by USF&W if you're exporting your own CITES shipment from the US to Canada.(complete with your import/export licence and exempt from des permit)

For appendix two animals (most boas,pythons, Iguanas, Day geckos, crocs etc) only one permit is required from the country of origin.

For appendix 1 animals (Dumerils, Argentines, etc)
Two permits are required. One from the country of origin, and one from the receiving country.
Appendix 1 animals are quite hard to import and export. The US is reportedly not currently issuing many appendix one permits, so this is a huge trade barrier.
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Old 10-24-03, 11:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Tammy, the thing to do, is to always have Americans ship to you. Don't bring it back by yourself.
If you pressure them to fly your shimpment home, then they will be on the hook for all the paperwork and licenses, because it's unlikely it will board a US airline without all the required paperwork. Many Americans charge extra for shipping internationally, but it's probably worth it, in reduced stress alone.
Picking up a shipment at a Canadian airport and simply paying the GST & PST is the way to go providing you can persuade the dealer to ship to you.
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Old 10-25-03, 08:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Geez thats a lot of work if you're just doing it for your own personal collect (not for profit). If you're close enought to the border just start digging a tunnel
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Old 10-25-03, 08:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Here is the info straight of the gc.ca site
Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Animal Products
Animal Health and Production Division


Importation of Amphibians and Reptiles
All Amphibians and Reptiles
(Excluding Turtles and Tortoises)

Amphibians such as salamanders, frogs, toads, newts
Reptiles such as snakes, crocodiles, caiman, iguanas, turtles, tortoises, geckos

The pet import requirements outlined in this page are current as of 2003-10- 25 .

For additional information on policies and positions for exotic animals, visit the website of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council of Canada (PIJAC Canada): http://www.pijaccanada.com/English/p...mal_policy.cfm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please be advised that amphibians and reptiles (excluding turtles and tortoises) are no longer regulated under the Health of Animals Regulations and as a result, no Canadian Food Inspection Agency import permit is required, nor a health certificate and no inspection will normally be done at the border. Imports are permitted from any country, for any use, to any destination in Canada.

Turtles and Tortoises

An import permit* is required for turtles and tortoises from all countries.

For personal pets, these animals must have been in the owner’s personal possession in the country of origin and accompany the owner to Canada.

For research and scientific purposes within a laboratory, display in a recognized zoo, they do not need to be accompanied, but still require a permit

Turtle and Tortoise Eggs

An import permit* is required for turtle and tortoise eggs from all countries, BUT WILL ONLY BE ISSUED TO ZOOS AND RESEARCH LABORATORIES.

The reason for restrictions on turtles, tortoises and their eggs is that there is a great danger of transmitting serious diseases, such as salmonella. Until a Risk Assessment demonstrates safety, no permits will be issued for turtle and tortoise eggs for personal use or commercial purposes (ie. Pet Shops).

*Please complete an Application for Permit to Import and forward it to the CFIA Area Import Office in the province into which you wish to import the animal(s).

Note: Please apply for a permit at least 30 days in advance of the import.

Endangered Species List

The importation of reptiles into Canada may be subject to the control of the Canadian Wildlife Services (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES)). Please contact them at (613) 997-1840, (819) 953-6283 or visit their website at: http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca

Environment Canada

Please note that environmental and human health risk analysis may be required under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act if the frog species are new substances not previously introduced to Canada. For further information, please view the following site: http://ww.ec.gc.ca/substances.

Fees

Fees are applicable when applying for an import permit, approval of a quarantine facility, and inspection of animals. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) Area Import Office will advise you on the fees that apply to your particular situation.

Automated Import Reference Systems (AIRS)

The purpose of the AIRS is to provide information on import requirements for all commodities regulated by CFIA. The application uses a question and answer approach to guide the user through a series of questions about the Harmonized System (HS) Codes, origin, destination, end use and miscellaneous qualifiers of the product they wish to import.

If you wish to view the import requirements for turtles or tortoises, please refer to AIRS (http://www.airs-sari.inspection.gc.ca). HS Codes for turtles and tortoises: 01 06 20 2085

Here's the link
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Old 10-25-03, 08:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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hey how is all doing???i ordered from the boaphile and he will send to canada only orders of 3000us$ or more due to the amount of paper work ( this was for boas)
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