border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > Community Forums > General Discussion

Notices

View Poll Results: Do you have insurance coverage for your reptiles???
Yes- I'm fully covered 4 6.90%
Yes- I think it's in my policy but not sure 6 10.34%
No- I can't find an insurance provider that will cover me 17 29.31%
No- i don't have enough reptiles 21 36.21%
Insurance who needs that nothings going to happen 10 17.24%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-02-04, 09:31 PM   #31 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug-2003
Location: Canada
Age: 47
Posts: 78
If you all need insurance I Heard that Traders General or Aviva dosen"t give a fuss if you got herps or not.
Tortoise man is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 09:48 PM   #32 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2003
Location: Pickering, ON
Posts: 45
That is correct. I looked into Aviva's policies today and they do not have any exclusions (as to reptiles). Traders is a division of Aviva, but only deals in group policies (eg, unions, organizations, etc...).

Aviva is a broker based company, so you will have to deal with a broker. Also, they will probably refer you to Pilot, as Pilot is a subsidiary of Aviva. (If in Ontario. Pilot does not operate outside Ontario) Pilot is known as having a "Don't be cheap, the customer comes first." motto when it comes to claims.

Another line you may want to look into is the new Presidents Choice Financial line. I read that it is slowly being rolled out across Ontario this year and the rest of Canada next year. PC insurance will be operated by Aviva's Scottish & York and marketed directly through PC. It will probably be cheaper as well because there is no broker taking a commission.
C_Ellenzweig is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 10:23 PM   #33 (permalink)
Member
 
Lisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Trenton
Posts: 6,075
Send a message via ICQ to Lisa Send a message via MSN to Lisa Send a message via Yahoo to Lisa
Another reason why it's always good to document and keep receits.
__________________
Neo-Slither (Snake fanatic mailing list) http://<br /> http://groups.yahoo.c...p/Neo-Slither/

May you live in interesting times.
Lisa is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 10:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2003
Location: Pickering, ON
Posts: 45
Quote:
Another reason why it's always good to document and keep receits.
Exactly! If you are legitimate, you have nothing to worry about. Even a photo of you with your expensive items will do. You should have some proof of ownership.
C_Ellenzweig is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 11:35 PM   #35 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar-2003
Location: Orillia, ON
Age: 47
Posts: 460
Wow Colin, thanks for all the great info. On the other hand, there is quite a bit of misinformation in this thread that I think needs correcting:

If someone breaks into your home, your are allowed to use reasonable force in self defense. Reasonable is always a challenge to define. Generally in Canada the Ďreasonable personí test is used, i.e. did you act the way any reasonable person would act under similar circumstances. Shooting someone who is threatening you with a gun is reasonable. Shooting someone as they carry out your TV set is not. US law is very different in this area. Also, you are not allowed to set traps, hazards, etc. that would harm trespassers, etc. If a person broke into your house looking for some cash and got bitten by your free-roaming cobra/croc/rottweiler/etc, you could be sued, and you'd probably lose. If the same person broke into your locked cage with a warning label on it and got bitten by your cobra, you could still be sue, but youíll win. Of course, with legal fees, you could still lose $$$:-(

Electrical stuff- CSA does not certify electricians. CSA certifies products (not just electrical). Some products are not CSA approved for a variety of reasons (not marketed in Canada, low sales volume, and user-modified wiring requirements being a few). Such products CAN be inspected and certified through the Electrical Safety Authority of Ontario (or similar body in other provinces). Companies do this but individuals rarely do because of the cost. There are also 10 other certifying bodies such as ULC and ETL. Electrical work in your own home does not have to be done by a licensed electrician. It can be done by YOU. What does need to be done- you must take out a permit from the ESAO, and have your work inspected. I just had a final inspection done in January for our future classroom, and will be taking out another permit soon for my next phase of work. The permit cost varies with the amount of work you are doing, but expect it to cost around $120. BTW, the number to call for permits is 1-800-ESA-SAFE.

You do not need a business license to breed and sell reptiles! You also are not acting illegally if you donít charge PST and GST. You donít need to register for a GST number unless your business activities generate $30,000+ in gross sales. You donít need to charge PST unless you are buying things and then reselling them for a profit. Reptiles you produce in your basement would not have PST applied. Exception- if you get a PST number so that you can purchase food/supplies PST exempt to produce your reptiles at a cheaper cost, you would need to charge PST on your sales.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!
Jeff Hathaway is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 02-03-04, 12:07 AM   #36 (permalink)
Super Genius
 
mykee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov-2002
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Age: 42
Posts: 6,332
Jeff and Colin, I have read a lot of posts and responded to just as many. I have to say that this is, by far, the most informative post I have read on this site to date. Your information, which surprisingly was backed up with fact, not heresay was refreshing to say the least. I commend you both on educated, informative posts. Thank you both kindly.
__________________
Do not buy from www.strictlyballs.ca
mykee is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 12:20 AM   #37 (permalink)
Member
 
HetForHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2003
Location: Taber,Alberta,Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 1,815
Send a message via MSN to HetForHuman Send a message via Yahoo to HetForHuman
Well i'll just say that about 2 years ago when i only had 1 snake, i had an incident where my heat lamp fell off of my snakes cage and onto the carpet while i was sleeping. I woke up to an awful burning smell and went to the living room to find the light on the floor and the carpet starting on fire. It burnt all the way down to the the plywood.

Now my father was renting me the house and when i told him what happened he thought we were gonna be screwed.

But he phoned his insurance company and they sent out an adjuster, i told him what happened, and he even seen the snake and everything in the living room. We ended up getting it covered by insurance no problem. Got the whole living room recarpeted and all i had to pay was a $500 deductable.

So i guess there are some out there that will insure you.
__________________
[10:12pm]ę@ [Matt]Ľ he's all up in there like swimwear.
HetForHuman is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 01:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2003
Location: Pickering, ON
Posts: 45
Thanks Jeff, you covered some very important points in your last post! I you guys are looking for advice on wiring and electrical code, Jeff seems to be the one to ask.

Quote:
You do not need a business license to breed and sell reptiles! You also are not acting illegally if you donít charge PST and GST. You donít need to register for a GST number unless your business activities generate $30,000+ in gross sales. You donít need to charge PST unless you are buying things and then reselling them for a profit. Reptiles you produce in your basement would not have PST applied. Exception- if you get a PST number so that you can purchase food/supplies PST exempt to produce your reptiles at a cheaper cost, you would need to charge PST on your sales.
This is kinda a grey area. It's true that you aren't doing anything illegal, but as far as the Insurance Company is concerned, you are running a business. If you are regularly selling any product (animals included) from an insured property, it is an increased risk. The fact that you are dealing with the public increases the risk of liability.

For example: you ship a snake to someone across the country. This animal is carrying a zoonose (disease contracted by humans, from animals). This person gets sick and died. Your insurance company is now liable.

Example 2: You breed boas. A potential customer decided that he want to come see your snakes before purchasing. He arrives with his 5 year old son. You are holding on of the breeders as they are look at the other animals. Suddenly, the 10' snake that you're holding strikes and latches on you the little boy's face. In this situation, the insurance company is also liable.

My advice - if you are anything more then a hobby breeder, I would let your insurance company know. If you are actually making profit, (even under $30,000) you are more than a hobby breeder. Hobbyist sell their animals to pay for their hobby. (either aquire different animals or pay for food, electricity, etc...) They sell to keep their hobby going. It is very difficult to actually turn a profit on reptiles (I'm sure a lot of breeders will agree). There are a lot of expenses involved and the demand is limited. Basically - If you are handing out business cards, booking tables at reptile shows, or even putting up a web site advertising yourself as a breeder you should probably let your insurance company know. However, if you are breeding animals in your basement occasionally posting them on classifieds, you probably don't have much to worry about.



ALSO - I checked again with our underwriting manager here at work and I was told that damage caused by Flexwatt heat tape IS COVERED by all insurance companies. (Provided negligence was not the cause. ie. improper connections, constant exposure to water, etc... As the product is approved by UL (Underwriters labratories) in the US, it is viewed as meeting comparable standards. The same product is sold in Europe under the name FlexAll. (where it also meets all standards) Imagine you moved from the US to Canada. You would probably own numerous products that aren't CSA approved because they aren't sold in Canada. Obviously you wouldn't be forced to stop using those items.

Colin
C_Ellenzweig is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 02:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar-2003
Location: Orillia, ON
Age: 47
Posts: 460
Good examples, Colin. I wasn't trying to suggest that insurance companies wouldn't be concered about business activities under $30K. They certainly are! I believe it was in the other insurance thread that I said if you are breeding and selling in any major manner, it would be considered a home based business, and most basic homeowner's policies won't cover it. My point was that it isn't against the law to do these things without GST and PST numbers. One thing I forgot to mention- under the Business Names Act, if you carry on business under any name but your own, you need to register said name as a sole proprietorship (or partnership), or you are breaking the law, albeit one that is rarely enforced. So saying you are "Jeff Hathaway" -breeder of reptiles is okay, but calling yourself "Jeff's Jungle", "Hathaway Herps", etc. would not be unless you register.

Thanks for the info on the way companies view Flexwatt!

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!
Jeff Hathaway is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 03:19 PM   #40 (permalink)
Member
 
MouseKilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 1,346
those sweet and kind insurers

Quote:
Originally posted by C_Ellenzweig
First of all, I'd like to state that insurance companies are not the "scum of the earth".
Oh, come on now, most of us here have auto insurance in Ontario so that's a hard sell!

Quote:
Insurance is one of the largest industries in the country and employs hundreds of thousands of people.[/B]
Yeah, right... so does cocaine, is that a beneficial industry too?

Quote:
The only way they make money is by investing that large pool of money (In case you didn't notice, the stock markets weren't great over the last couple years). On top of that, insurance companies lose TONS of money on auto policies. There is not one profitable auto line in Canada.[/B]
Finally an admission from the insurance industry that it was their foolish trust in the market and poor investment choices are what is REALLY driving our auto insurance through the roof. Let me get this straight, you take the money I give you every month and gamble it all away and I get to absorb the lost projected profits? Guess there really is no risk of investing badly when you can slough the losses onto a captive market like the one in Ontario and other places not wise enough to adopt public auto insurance.
__________________
I feel a little light headed... maybe you should drive...
MouseKilla is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 02-03-04, 03:49 PM   #41 (permalink)
Member
 
Siretsap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan-2003
Location: Montreal, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 1,177
C_Ellenzweig

I was wondering, I have insurance with Meloche Monnex at the moment, and when I spoke with one of the representatives, they told me it didn't matter if I had reptiles. Now, I don't have a close on my contract saying I have reptiles. Is this ok? I only got a word from a women on the phone everything was ok if I had reptiles. Nothing written. Do you know if this particular (TD Meloche Monnex) will insure you if you have reptiles or not?
Thanks
Siretsap is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 04:24 PM   #42 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2003
Location: Pickering, ON
Posts: 45
Quote:
Finally an admission from the insurance industry that it was their foolish trust in the market and poor investment choices are what is REALLY driving our auto insurance through the roof. Let me get this straight, you take the money I give you every month and gamble it all away and I get to absorb the lost projected profits? Guess there really is no risk of investing badly when you can slough the losses onto a captive market like the one in Ontario and other places not wise enough to adopt public auto insurance.
I fail to see that admission, but I'm sure you think you're pretty clever trying to turn that around. Actually (since you obviously can't grasp the concept) - Insurance companies MAKE money off investments. Insurance companies LOSE money on COR (Combined operating ratio - The cost of operating vs amount of premiums). This means they PAY OUT more then they take in from premiums. If you had any clue how the world works, you would realize that EVERY large company invests their assets. Do you really think any multi-national corporation would hire an investment advisor who they thought was a gamble? (There are LOTS of low and zero risk investments - i.e. governement bonds Good assumption, but you've obviously not too enlightened when it comes to investments) Of course not. The fact is that a few years ago, we were making 11%+ on our investments. Now we are making from 2 - 5%.

If you want to know why your insurance is so much, it's due to fraud and the increasing tort and medical costs. I guess your ignorance makes it easy to point your fingers and blame one industry for the problems created by our society.

Did you drive at all today? There were over 100 accidents in Ontario before 8:30am. Who do you think will pay to fix all those cars? I'll bet those drivers are loving their insurance companies now!

If you really want your insurance lowered, write to your local MP. Tell them that you want legislation that limits medical fees and caps settlements on minor and soft-tissue claims. Until that happens, insurance prices won't drop. We can't lower the price of a product we already lose money on. Look what happened in some areas on the east coast. The insurance companies were forced to lower their rate and most pulled their business out of those areas because they were losing too much money. This left consumers scrambling to find insurance and many had to turn to the "facility association" (a risk-sharing pool). Facility policies are more expensive, as they provide coverage to the people who nobody else will insure.

It is ignorance like this that gives the insurance industry a bad name.
C_Ellenzweig is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 04:26 PM   #43 (permalink)
Banned
 
chas*e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan-2003
Posts: 1,036
Country:
1) Don't tell your insurance company anything you don't have to. Be honest, but don't offer information.

2) If you have to have an inspection on your house, try to move your animals out temporarily. If that can't be done, be sure your wiring is legal (and neat, not tangled)


See if your fire claim is covered when they find any anomaly in your contents disclosure....you will be hit with ..THE BIG VOID...
If you don't agree with my, "Uneducated, opinion"..well, it is your prerogative....and I apologize.....charlie

Last edited by chas*e; 02-03-04 at 04:30 PM..
chas*e is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 04:39 PM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
MouseKilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 1,346
one more thing

Quote:
Originally posted by C_Ellenzweig
In fact, Canadian insurance companies pay out over $1.01 for every dollar they take in. (You can check this with the Insurance Bureau of Canada)
Forgot one thing, don't be fooled by the name, the Insurance Bureau of Canada is anything but an objective source for information. For those who don't know it's an organization of insurers, so you can go ahead and believe the thieves when you ask them how much they've stolen if you like. If you want the real score without the industry's self-interested rhetoric just compare rates between the provinces that have public auto insurance and those that don't.
__________________
I feel a little light headed... maybe you should drive...
MouseKilla is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 04:43 PM   #45 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov-2003
Location: Pickering, ON
Posts: 45
Quote:
I was wondering, I have insurance with Meloche Monnex at the moment, and when I spoke with one of the representatives, they told me it didn't matter if I had reptiles. Now, I don't have a close on my contract saying I have reptiles. Is this ok? I only got a word from a women on the phone everything was ok if I had reptiles. Nothing written. Do you know if this particular (TD Meloche Monnex) will insure you if you have reptiles or not?
Siretsap - I have heard that Meloche Monnex insures herp owners. If you were told by a rep, I doubt they would misinform you. The best thing you can do is call and ask again. When you do, write down the rep's name, what they tell you and the EXACT date and time you called. This way, if they do contest it after a claim is presented, you have evidence of the conversation.

You don't need any special clause on the contract stating you own reptiles. (Unless you have them as a scheduled item. You would not schedule reptiles unless they were extremely rare and worth several thousand dollars) Scheduled items are those in which you have bought specific coverage for. Eg a $10,000 ring. You would then send a reciept/appraisal to the insurance company to keep on record. If you even had a claim, scheduled items are basically replaced with no questions asked, as the insurance company already has proof of ownership and value.

The only clauses (of this type) you would find on your contract are exclusions. Unless your contact specifically says you are not covered if you own herps, you are covered. However, most policies do exclude any damage cause DIRECTLY by animals. (Therefore a fire caused by a faulty heat lamp is covered, as it was not directly caused by the animal)
C_Ellenzweig is offline  
Login to remove ads
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-17, Hobby Solutions Inc.

right

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0