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View Poll Results: Do you have insurance coverage for your reptiles???
Yes- I'm fully covered 4 6.90%
Yes- I think it's in my policy but not sure 6 10.34%
No- I can't find an insurance provider that will cover me 17 29.31%
No- i don't have enough reptiles 21 36.21%
Insurance who needs that nothings going to happen 10 17.24%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-11-03, 03:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hmmm... I should look at the insurance issue. I rent the basement of a house and wonder if my keeping of herps/herp heating accessories is going to invalidate my landlord's insurance. Anyone know off the top of their head?
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Old 09-11-03, 03:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Jay that would be something you would have to find out through the insurance company. You have to check your policy or your landlords. if it does not then you would have to check into getting an admentment to the clause which would cost extra, but may be well worth it if something were to happen. Which is something i'm going to be checking into myself.
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Old 09-11-03, 06:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Have experienced this months ago...

Hi All,

Just read your policy. Mine (from Allstate) reads.... "all animals" which includes reptiles. As long as it is NOT a business. You are NOT covered if you are conducting business. Yes selling reptiles you breed without a licence is a business (an illegal one). If you are in business then you are charging full 15% PST AND GST

(if you are not in Ontario but buy from it then YOU are responsible for paying your provincial taxes, only GST is REQUIERED, if you are american then you pay NO taxes in Canada.... you will be charged your taxes when it crosses the border for your state and federals)

Point served.... that will void your insurance (fully reserched through many companies including my own which I have documented to solidify any claim should the need arise)

BTW they are also covered under your theft policy without notification (big explaination here but... my entire collection is ensured up to $20000.00 CAD which is about 1000x more than it is worth... it's a standard policy for $200.15 CAD per annum)

Heat tape (or any American approved) as a heat source that is NOT sold in Canada and has no approval. Your in luck... certain HVAC products (categories as noted in CSA approval applications) are grandfathered or have parelled requirements. Flexwatt falls under these categories (as well as Flexall which IS CSA approved but only avialable through Europe.... do a simple search on Google, it pops up). You are covered by your insurance policy (at least mine but mine are pretty commonly writen caviots on a common contract) AS LONG AS YOUR ACTIONS (regarded as negligence if YOU cause the mishap. Meaning you didn't wire it wrong or broke any CSHA rules like open connections) did not cause the mishap (house roast).

Interesting wouldn't you say,

Dave

Pls forgive any spelling mistakes, don't have word installed yet
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Old 09-11-03, 06:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Oh and by the way....

Don't think your insurance company is stupid (or the government for that matter). They do not like paying out claims which they feel are winable (meaning they don't payout). They have investigators as do the government. Do you think they don't have an idea what goes on? I got the pinch for not claiming (and it was 4yrs later, from the government which is FAR WORSE than ANY insurance company). I know exactly how they found out, too bad it was after the fact. Came from many people.

Same goes for the government.... as I stated above... DO NOT screw with the government. They DO NOT appricate it. You can commit MANY dispicable crimes and receive far less punishment by court system. Nothing p's them off more then not getting paid (ask anyone who has been audited).

Just a word of advice and warning.

Dave
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Old 09-11-03, 07:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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We don't own now so it's not an issue. I am a little leary about even mentioning it to an insurance company. I've read and heard about so many people being dropped when they mention to an insurance agent they have snakes.
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Old 09-11-03, 08:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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for an insurance broker, reptiles equal many heaters and outlets in use, which equals a greater risk for fire. that'll be tough...
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Old 09-12-03, 12:24 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I am jumping in without reading anything because this got me. If I'm not insured and someone else breaks INTO MY home.....and my dog/cat/rabbit/snake whatever bites and or injures this person I AM HELD LIABLE. WHAT BULLS**T IS THIS??????? Ok now I'm going to go read what everone else said.....lol

Linds: A way to get the person robbing you/beating you, or worse which I'm not going to say is to........well do the "ultimate" in self defence.......:O
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Old 09-12-03, 12:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i have tried and still trying. every time i contact a company about it they pretty much laugh at me. bastards
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Old 09-12-03, 12:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Insurance companies are scum of the earth(too be polite)...I stay away from telling anyone(government or such) my biz...don't need them......Lucky Luciano, the architect of organized crime, near the end of his life said,"When I see what the insurance companies are doing today(1969) I have been in the wrong business all my life"........get that inta ya.
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Old 09-12-03, 12:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Insurance companies will gladly take your premiums each month but when it comes time(god forbid) for them to pay..well..I have and seen thousands of snakes in my time but I NEVER seen anything squirm and slide or as slippery as an Insurance company agent...lol.......drive it too them every chance you get because you know they would do/and do the same thing to you in a heartbeat

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Old 09-12-03, 03:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Piebald Guy,
Thanks for the informative post! I learned a lot
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Old 09-12-03, 07:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Insurance companies view reptiles as a risk-even more so than a vicious dog. If you read some of the policies, it explicity states that the insurance is void if you have reptiles.

As far as the heat tape issue goes, I spoke with an insurance agent that I know and he said the only thing that he could see is that insurance policies are voided if you have an electrical device that was not wired by a certified electrician. Obviously this would also apply to other wiring such as your house, etc.
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Old 02-02-04, 08:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Insurance companies are scum of the earth (too be polite)...
First of all, I'd like to state that insurance companies are not the "scum of the earth". Ignorant people are the scum of the earth. (to be polite) The type of people who don't know how to use the word "too" in the proper context (don't try to say it's a type-o, you did it in two consecutive posts) are probably the same type of people who launch attacks without having ANY knowledge to back them up.....get that inta ya.

These "scum of the earth" people that you refer to are all around you. They are your friends, family and fellow herp-keepers (including myself). Insurance is one of the largest industries in the country and employs hundreds of thousands of people. There are towns in rural areas that are almost 25% employed by the local insurance broker.

If you think that you're getting ripped off, guess what? Insurance companies pay out more that they take in from premiums. In fact, Canadian insurance companies pay out over $1.01 for every dollar they take in. (You can check this with the Insurance Bureau of Canada) The only way they make money is by investing that large pool of money (In case you didn't notice, the stock markets weren't great over the last couple years). On top of that, insurance companies lose TONS of money on auto policies. There is not one profitable auto line in Canada. Insurace companies receive most of their premiums from commercial policies.


Quote:
BTW they are also covered under your theft policy without notification (big explaination here but... my entire collection is ensured up to $20000.00 CAD which is about 1000x more than it is worth... it's a standard policy for $200.15 CAD per annum)
Let's put this into perspective. Say you own a house that's worth $150, 000. In that house there is $25,000 in contents. If that house burns down, your insurance company is stuck with a bill for $175,000, plus the cost of the emergency services, a hotel to put you up in, any independent fire investigations, etc... At $200 a year, it would take you 875 years to pay for those damages. Everyone hates the insurance company until they need them.

If you actually knew where your premium dollars went, you would realize that it's not the insurance companies who are ripping you off. It's the people all around you. It's the doctor or lawyer that bills the insurance company $500+ an hour. Or the paralegal who is dragging thier case through the court system as slowly as possible in an attempt to bypass laws that prevent cash payouts before a certain time period expires (these laws deter fraud). It's the physiotherapist or chiropracter who insists you need more treatment when you feel fine. And finally, it's the insured. The person who claims they had a 32" TV instead of a 25", or a $2000 bike instead of the $200 CCM they bought at Canadian Tire. It is estimated that 10-15% of claims contain some degree of fraud (from exagerating what you really had to completely fraudulant claims). There of organized crime rings that include lawyers, paralegals, tow truck drivers, doctors, physio and mechanics. They stage accidents to recieve the benefits, which in turn get paid to others in the ring. (if you do some research, you'll see they are busted regularily) On top of that, there are the people who sue for HUGH amounts of money for soft tissue and other minor injuries.

Quote:
Don't think your insurance company is stupid (or the government for that matter). They do not like paying out claims which they feel are winable (meaning they don't payout). They have investigators as do the government. Do you think they don't have an idea what goes on?
I assure you insurance companies are not out to get you. There is no such thing as a "winable" claim. There are "questionable" claims and "defenceable" claims. I also assure you that insurance companies are not stupid at all. They know exactly what is going on and if you try to screw them, they'll screw you even harder.

Defenceable claims usually involve one of two situations. First situation: where there is a disagreement in what the payout should be. This usually occurs in injury claims. People expect $15,000 for being off work for two weeks with whiplash. If you didn't notice, this isn't the USA, land of the lawsuit. Insurance is meant to compensate, not reward.

Second: where there are grounds for denial. Either:

a) you breached your contact (the law applies to every contract you sign, not just the ones you feel it should apply to)

or

b) There is enough evidence to support the position that your claim is fraudulent. (in essence, a breach of contract)


Questionable claims are where the investigator comes into play. If there is a "red flag" raised, the claim will be referred to investigations. For example: You claim you had a $5,000 diamond ring that was stolen and you can't find the reciept. (There's the first red flag) You have never had it appraised. (There's the second red flag, as most people with valuable jewellery will have an appraisal for insurance purposes) And to top it all off, you can't produce a single photo of yourself wearing the ring. (#3) Does that not seem questionable to you? Would you hand over $5000, or would you investigate more.
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Old 02-02-04, 08:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Cont'd....

Basically, what it come down to is this. Insurance companies have to assess risk based on statistics. (How else would they price the product) If you come out and say "Oh, by the way... I have reptiles, will you still insure me?", their first assumption is: If this guy feels that his reptiles are enough risk that he has to mention it specifically, they probably are. They don't know what kind of products are used and probably assume it's a risk. (While often, it is nothing more than a 60w lightbulb) Would you ever come out and say "I have a hamster, will you cover me?" Of course not. A hamster is not a significant risk. If you make it an issue, it will be an issue.

The best advice I can give is:

1) Don't tell your insurance company anything you don't have to. Be honest, but don't offer information.

2) If you have to have an inspection on your house, try to move your animals out temporarily. If that can't be done, be sure your wiring is legal (and neat, not tangled).

3) Your animals are only covered if damage is done by specified perils (causes). I.e. they would replace your animal if it died due to a fire.
There is no coverage for damage done directly by animals (of any kind), but a fire cause by the lamp on your tank would be covered unless it was caused by negligence.

4) If you are determined to ask your insurance company about coverage for herp owners, you don't have to tell them that you are insured with them and you definately don't have to mention your name. Act as if you are looking to purchase coverage.

On the Flexwatt topic:

Quote:
Heat tape (or any American approved) as a heat source that is NOT sold in Canada and has no approval. Your in luck... certain HVAC products (categories as noted in CSA approval applications) are grandfathered or have parelled requirements. Flexwatt falls under these categories (as well as Flexall which IS CSA approved but only avialable through Europe.... do a simple search on Google, it pops up). You are covered by your insurance policy (at least mine but mine are pretty commonly writen caviots on a common contract) AS LONG AS YOUR ACTIONS (regarded as negligence if YOU cause the mishap. Meaning you didn't wire it wrong or broke any CSHA rules like open connections) did not cause the mishap (house roast).
This is correct. It is covered, as it meets comparable requirements and is exempt. (Providing the fire is not caused by negligence)

Chas*e: Sorry if I was a bit aggressive (and defensive) off the start, but you are making an attack from a unknowledgeable position. If you ever saw the industry from the angle I have, you would realize the the problems lie within the legislation and society itself.
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Old 02-02-04, 09:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Informative post

If anyone was reading the other thread I started about insurance Pilot has no problem with reptiles in the home. Though they do want to be notified of the size.

They're a good place to insure your car too When I was in Toronto on business I parked in the lot at Yonge/Finch where I used to work at the MOH. I figured I'd be back by 6pm no problem. Network issues at the press event we were staging delayed me till 11, and I found my dashboard ripped apart and console demolished by an amateur thief. It cost 800 bucks to fix, with a 100 dollar deductible.
The next time my car insurance renewed I expected to get dinged in a big way. It went down almost 10%.

Paying insurance sucks. Paying taxes suck. But at least I know what's happening with my insurance money.
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