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Old 09-05-03, 10:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Another one of chondro python's debats

Handeling Reptiles Do you think it is somthing you need to do for the animal to thrive? What are your points and views on this topic?

I say No! I think it is just some Jazz that pet stores sell to ppl so they can pass reptiles of as cute and cudely animals.

Now I don't wana say that ppl should not handel there animals and I also don't wana try and change ppl daily routines.

This is how I see it...

pet stores sell you a reptile and say handel it every day and it will grow to be healthy but in reallity you are not helping your herp cause...

Handeling==> Stress
even if ppl say it is not stressed HE/SHE is "TAME".

But what they don't know is when a animal is so stressed to the point that it will just chose to not move (rendering it handelable OR "TAME") and pray to god we humans don't see it.
That a lactic acid will build up in the muscules and that is actualy verry dangerous to the health to the animal.

stress==> not eating and other physical problems such as RI

Stress can actualy make your herp stop eating and in concequence your animal can develope a rather poor imune Systome well maby not develope....bad chois of words there but it will weeken it that is for sure.

And well negative health and not eating for prolong periouds of time can and may==> DEATH.

Then what do we do we go back to the unforgiving Pet store and buy a new herp 6 monts to a year later and the viciouse circle continues.

well you tell me why handeling 30min a day is beter then 30 min a week.

Oh lets not forget that is a extra 30 min considering the fact that we may spend about 1-2hours a week just cleanung the cage and giving clean water,feeding and spraying and changing light bulbs (maby you just hit a switch like me). And so on and so on!!

Marc Doiron
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Old 09-05-03, 10:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't believe snakes need to have human interaction to thrive. If you handle once or twice a week so the snake is familar with handling, it will make life alot easier. You have to handle sometimes to be able to clean the cages and if they have some interaction they may be less apt to strike. I very rarely handle and I don't have any strikers or agressive snakes.
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Old 09-05-03, 10:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ya that is my point like there is a fair amount of interaction in the run of a day that if you do it all correctly you should have to resort to handeling 2-4 times a month just enught to say you did it.
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Old 09-05-03, 11:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My snakes i really don't handle that much at all. So i agree with you on that. But on the other hand i'm almost alway holding my leos and at times beardies. I think they don't mind the occasional handling. I have a leo that will hear my voice then come out of her hide and start walking on air until i either get her out or until she gets tired of trying to get to me. I also have a wild child (leo) that hears the slightest sound and runs as fast as she can. I think she came from a bad home. She is calming down with time, but she's still kinda skittish.

My beardies will come out of their cage and come sit with me on the couch. Usually they sit on the back of the couch and watch tv. They will do that for hours then why i try to put them up they start throwing a little fit.

basicly i agree snakes don't need that much attention but certain lizard on the other hand i don't think mind handling i think some might even enjoy it.
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Old 09-05-03, 11:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree with drewlowe. Certain lizards, especially igs, beardies and monitors, get downright squirrelly if not provided with stimulation. Tortoises seem to seek out interaction as well. Snakes on the other hand would just as soon be left to their own devices.
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Old 09-06-03, 12:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I haven't had any problem with snakes refusing to eat because of too much handling.

Not refuting or agreeing here, just stating my experience. The only non-feeders I have had were stressed from my move here from CA. All are feeding again and doing well.
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Old 09-06-03, 01:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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...

If snakes need to be handled to "thrive" then why aren't all the ones in the wild dying from lack of handling???



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Old 09-06-03, 02:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Lol Jeff
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Old 09-06-03, 08:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Its been said in here many times that snakes are naturally solitary animals,With the exception of burmation and breeding.
However I believe that if the animals are to be used in educational programs where they are being handled by the general public then regular handling is needed to keep the use to human interaction.
I also believe that captive snakes dont get the excersize they naturally get in the wild, lets face it there food gets handed to the in most cases already dead, and really they have no were to go in a cage

Just my opinion Jason
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Old 09-06-03, 08:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Im this Jayson on this one... How can a 6 foot snake in a 4 x 2' enclosure get the proper exercise it needs or should be provided if the snake is not taken out and handled?? The snake may look fine, but in all reality if you were 6' and laid down in a 4 x 3' enclosure where you do have enough area to moved around, but lets face it... im willing to bet you would still get cramps, aches and pains from not getting enough exercise no matter which way you look at it... I know with my emerald if I do not take her out to be exercised she will build up feces / urates into a noticable buldge, but if I take her out a few times a week she is alot more regular with bowel movements period... Im not saying she "enjoys" or likes to be out of her enclosure but its obvious that it IS doing her some good in keeping her regular and well exercised. In the wild a snake will move to accomadate for its needs... Seeking heat / cold, food / water and security... they wont move if all of these needs are met... If you are providing your animal with all of these within non moving distances your snake wont move period, and how healthy can something possible be that is made up of muscle, eating / growing but not moving!?!? Just my .02 cents.
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Old 09-06-03, 10:07 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Good points, I agree with Jayson as well. Another good point that is currently being researched by a zoo in Alberta or Manitoba (I think ) that stress for captive animals is good for them as it stimulates their interaction with other animals in the wild.
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Old 09-06-03, 07:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Handling=stress my a$$.

Any animal, when raised from a baby, can become accustomed to, even to the point of "liking" certain stimuli if it is part of their routine. When our adult corns hear our voices or sense activity in the herp room, they do this cute little thing where they slither up and put their noses right to the top of the enclosures. We take them out and they get plenty of exercise. Another thing - if we sit on the bed, they will sometimes do everything they can to get every part of their body close to us. And by the way, the herp room is usually around 85 degrees during the summer, so it's not that they need the heat. As an experiment, when Morpheus seemed to be feeling kind of affectionate, I got up and went to the other side of the bed. He came right back up to me, and put as much of himself in contact with me as he could. I went back to the other end - same thing. He followed.

But I can see why you would think this is a stressed reaction! Riiiiiiiiiight.

In some cases, some of our snakes DO get stressed if we DON'T handle them often. Some of the ones in our collection get handled daily, and we have never once had any stress-related problems as a result. They all feed like machines, and will even eat right after being handled for a while.
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Old 09-06-03, 07:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Let's not put everything under the same weight.
All snakes are not the same and all snakes do not have the same needs. A corn snake is very different from a GTP or a reticulated python. I will agree with some others' oppinions that snakes need to be handled in order to whittle away stress. All snakes cannot handle every day and cannot handle with the same way.
Most tree dwelling snakes are more aggressive and nervous and they require careful handling. The half of the job is when we are going to pick the snakes from their enclosures. We must do it slowly but decisively. If you won't handle your snakes every now and then, when you must open their cage to clean them they must have a serious problem, they must be very nervous. These snakes are adapted to live by humans cause they were born CB. After all, except a few difficult to feed spp. (balls, tree boas etc.) any other snake won't have feeding difficulties because of handling.
A hatchling after a few handlings, get to know humans and don't care at all. We are grubbing things too much, but to end where?
I will stick to this. Not every spp. has the same needs and we must learn about the snakes' needs BEFORE we buy it.
~Greg~
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Old 09-06-03, 07:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree with you Greg... not *every* snake can be handled every day, and some not at all. However, the way the argument was presented, it was portraying ALL snakes as being stressed when you handle them. This is simply not the case.
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Old 09-06-03, 08:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Another one of chondro python's debats

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chondro python

pet stores sell you a reptile and say handel it every day and it will grow to be healthy ]

Did a pet store worker actually say that to you!? It's not true. As long as a reptile has a proper sized enclosure, and the right light, heat, humidity, and food, they will be just fine. Many people like to have reptiles they can handle and it's a good idea that any herp is at least used to people so that if they have to be handled to be moved, taken to a vet, etc. they aren't overly stressed, but it's not as if they won't reach their full size, or be somehow unhealthy because they weren't handled lots. I think people tend to humanize reptiles too much.
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