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Old 08-14-02, 12:48 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Old 08-14-02, 02:29 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I think it ir ridiculous uless it happens in nature which i'm sure it ocassionally does. If they are going to breed Boas with other kinds of boas thats seems fine like the Red-tail with the Argintine. But when they start doing crap like anacondas and Brazilian rainbow boas it seems ridiculous not to mention they may look hidious when the results are out. I think what is on the market now is good. when these new snakes come out the prices are going to be so damn high knowone will be able to afford them.
We may have snakes sticks but you still can't compare that to the craziness of a Homeless person!!
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Old 08-15-02, 08:27 PM   #33 (permalink)
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i say hybrid all you want but dont do stupid stuff like BIG SCOTT said like anacondas and a gtp

hmmmm i wonder what that would look like
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Old 09-18-03, 12:30 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally posted by reverendsterlin
Heyas Fred
My problem with hybrids is Mr. Joe Bubblegumpopper that buy the hybrid and breeds it, produces it, then sells it to Mr. Whocares and the genetics are lost to the unsuspecting buyer down the road. If they have to breed them they and any buyers should be responsible for id chips, unfortunately down the road someone won't so I'm against hybrids. JMHO

Not meaning to start this up again.

You make a good point but in reality how many of you guys release your hybrid snakes in the wild? None I bet.

Most hybrids would not be able to survive in the wild. An albino burm would be scoffed up by a predator in no time.

If you look at the lion and tiger cross, considered two different species but both are related. Those crosses would not survive in the wild despite there sometimes larger size as most are domesticated.

Humans are one species and are not considered hybrids. A hybrid would be if a human had a kid with an ape.

All the different coloured cornsnakes you guys own are all hybrids. I don't think hybrids are a bad thing, but they should be kept as pets only. The wildcats, lynxs and wild felines in general are in danger because of some jack *** letting out his domesticated cat. It becomes a feral cat and mates with the wild stock, hybrid produced. The Coyote still exists, with few pure bloods. That again is human intervening.

As long as you keep your hybrid snakes and reptiles locked up. And don't send them to their parents homeland and let loose. Then hybrids are cool!
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Old 09-18-03, 12:36 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I think there is a big differenve between messing around with what is already there only hidden like albanism. Hybrids are a problem in the hobby because at some point in the cycle either through ignoance or miss-represention they will be passed off as pure animals. And no matter how many times you out cross that animal there is still a hybrid. So I'm 1000000% against hybrids.
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Old 09-18-03, 01:46 AM   #36 (permalink)
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As herpers is it not our responsibility to investigate, study, and maintain our animals properly. To house the species under conditions as close as possible to their natural environment, and treat them with utmost respect?
If this is true (which I believe it is), one should try to maintain the purity of the line from which the animal came from and the species as is. Not cross it with something it wouldn’t naturally select itself if it could possibly come across it in the wild.
This is maintaining the species as is, and respecting it for what centuries of evolution and natural selection had brought it to in the wild.

One of the main problems with hybridization is that it's all just for CASH FLOW. A guy bought one snake, and some friend dumped another snake on him...not the same species at all. But HEY if he could get them to breed, gosh darn it, he just might be able to squeeze some cash out of these snakes, and perhaps even a ton of it if it's something unique! WOW.

In this case, we can clearly see this wasn't a true herper, not someone who really cares about the animal or is in the hobby for the fact that they are intrigued by reptiles. But merely because it's something "Cool", an impulse, and then...a possible source of cash.

"You have no idea how many times a day I get some ignorant idiot calling me about how to breed some animal they JUST purchased...wants to buy a boy and a girl to breed before they even know the first thing about animal care. This to me, is one of the first signs of a bad potential pet parent. And in these cases I can see why people are trying to ban exotic animals...though this happens with dogs and cats too...but who is going to ban Fluffy and Scruffy?...."
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Old 09-18-03, 01:47 AM   #37 (permalink)
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As long as they're sterile and can't produce offspring go for it. Other than that they are just polluting the gene pool of said species. I'm not for it. Off with their heads!
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Old 09-18-03, 07:51 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I plan on producing jungle corns two times in the future, so I can get a normal, and then breed back a het albino to get an albino. I will be selling the babies but I will be telling people what they are buying. I don't really see much of a problem with it. Slander me if you want folks!
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Old 09-18-03, 08:34 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Ok time for my diplomatic opinion

I'm moreso on the against side, however, there is just one thing that makes me slightly ok with hybridization.

My only thing that makes my slightly ok with it is that we have the chance to take two beautiful things and make a new beautiful creature. We, as humans, I feel we enjoy playing God so to speak. We like controlling everything and this is just one more way to get satisfaction...

However, I'm still mostly against because of all of the facts that everyone has brought up. I liked Grant's comment the best about "Those ppl respect snakes as a commodity and not as a animal of nature....IMO" However, i feel that all that needed to be said has been said for the case against hybrids, so I won't get into it

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Old 09-18-03, 09:21 AM   #40 (permalink)
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When we're talking about crossing a blood and a BP or a JCP and GTP are we really talking about something that is scientifically possible? If you can produce these crosses are the offspring fertile? I know if you manage to cross animals that are too different genetically, like a horse and a donkey, the offspring are sterile and therefore cannot damage the gene pool of either animal. It's almost like a genetic safety feature. Seems the real God has a handle on this stuff no matter how much we like to flatter ourselves.

Oh and someone brought up the Sphinx. Just thought I would clarify that they are a naturally occuring mutation (like albinism) not a man made freak. They are ugly as hell though and I think we should eradicate them. With shovels. LOL!
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Old 09-18-03, 10:00 AM   #41 (permalink)
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When I first saw this thread, I ad mix feelings but I started thinking. Jeff (administrator) made a few really good points. How many of us have dogs, cats or whatever other pets that have been mix in one time or another? Some people are going to say, “Well it’s not the same” or is it? To give an example, I own 2 teams of sled dogs (20dogs total) and 15 of them are what we call “Alaskan huskies” which is not even a recognized breed. A Alaskan is a mix of deferent dogs breeds put together to give one super dog that will run faster and longer than the regular Siberian husky. We all have reason why we cross breed, but if the animal is to be kept in captivity, why not cross breed them? What so different with snakes that we can’t Hybrid them? There are hybrids even in the wild. I love fishing, more then all fishing for pikes. But there are pikes x muskies in the wild we call that tiger muskies. So if Mother Nature allows it in the wild why not in captivity? That’s one example in probably millions and I know that it’s rare in the wild but it still happens.

But (there is always a but) even if I don’t condemn hybrid snakes I would not by one. Because I don’t want it to become like dogs or cats that even if they say “pure breed” if you don’t have papers, it’s probably not. Maybe there should be an organization like the AKC or CCC for the snake that would give a proof of the purity of the snake. Then cross breeding would be as bad because will know what’s mixed and what’s not.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:58 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I will never buy another hybrid again. I have 2 corns, but at the time I didn't understand genetics. I wouldn't buy another again...
1.0 Reverse Okeetee Corn, 0.1 Albino Snow Corn, 1.1 Irian Jaya Carpet Pythons
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Old 09-18-03, 09:10 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Hybridization is ethically wrong....nothing should be done in Captivity that couldn't/wouldn't be done in the might as well be into Genetic Engineering of reptiles(corn x burm) ..why far do you want to take it.. there must be some sort of boundry.....
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Old 09-18-03, 10:00 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Ok, I wasn't going to post to this thread because it's been done several times already and whats been said was said. However, I must put in a word or two.. I didn't see this said, so I will, forgive me if it's already been reveiwed..

There are many visible differences between the breeds of domesticated dogs however, they are all in one species, Canis familiaris. This is the main reason why we call Dog types "breeds" and not species, so saying you have crossed a Rot and a Shepard isn't a valid argument, as for they are the same species.. Pure bred dogs have so many problems because they are insanely inbred and in fact are nothing but a mixture of multiple "Projects", and when they find a type they want they inbreed the animals and so forth and so on which happens to be another argument..

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Old 09-18-03, 10:02 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Ok, I don't have a lot to add, just my views. Firstly I am against hybridization of species or even subspecies. Locale is a touchy area, because you are often dealing with the same subspecies, althought often they should be reclassified (ie.Hogg isle. boa), and then there's localles which are arguable the same (guyana, and surinamme B.c.c.) but Burm/retic, B.c.i./B.c.c. jungle corns, etc. I am against.

Now as Gauts pointed out, wouldn't it be nice if there were a national database for breeders to track genetic lineage of animals(pure and morph) ? Well there are, they're the Canadian Boid Database and the American Boa Registery. But guess what, reptile keepers are a lot of talk and that's about it. Myself and others have heard the people saying "this would be great if..." and we have invested a lot of our time on making them happen, but when it comes down to it, the participation numbers are a joke. I will keep opperating the CDN boid database (out of stubbornness), but I think the american registery has folded due to lack of support.

If you really are concerned about the future of the hobby, about keeping bloodlines sorted, or morph breeders tracking het traits, then step up. It's also free, so you have no excuses. Check out the info and registeration forms at the link in my signature.

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