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Old 08-26-03, 03:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yes, as a matter of fact, I am saying that if Collette, OR MOST OTHER BIG BREEDERs do it, then yes, it is ok. However, this is not the reason I do it. The flipside of your $20,000 or nothing scenario is that do you honestly think that these big breeders would put there $20,000 snakes in harms way? The answer is no, regardless of what spin you put on it. Also, I'm absolutely POSITIVE that there experience and knowledge dwarfs yours, so your 'newbie' theory is moot. Also, if you have had any REAL experience with BP's, you would know that converting a BP from live to f/t is a three weeks process, you have MUCH to learn, OR you have been VERY LUCKY with your ball python experiences. I am very happy that you have found a method of feeding that works for you, but it's ignorant of you to think that you can change anyone's mind with your ignorant and malicious comments.
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Old 08-26-03, 03:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I am in no way an ignorant keeper. Just because a big breeder feeds live doesn't justify it. I know all my stuff I'll ever need to know on ball pythons. Check the site:
http://ball.geckoisland.com
I know how to switch them over, I've had bad feeders that would refuse food. This is not the problem. they have a snake that will eat, and they still feed it live. If you have a feeding ball python already, it is very easy to switch it over.
So I guess by your standards, if I had 300+ ball pythons, and maorphs. What I did would be law, and make bad practices ok? Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
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Old 08-26-03, 03:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mykee
As a sidenote, in the "Ball python breeding video" by Dr. Mark Seward and the Sutherlands, Collette is shown feeding her balls live rats. Why don't you e-mail her with your feelings?
I'm really surprised that they feed live considering how easy it was to get the male I recently acquired from them to eat F/T. He took it first try and within 15-30 seconds of dangling it near him. Maybe I'm just lucky
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Old 08-26-03, 03:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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On the whole 'big breeder' note.... some powerfeed as well. Just because they do it doesn't make it right.

It is more prudent to do what is best for the animal. Once in our care it is our responsibility to keep them in the best health. Feeding f/t is the best way to do that. I don't want my snakes bitten or parasite ridden. Plus the fact that we keep far too many reptiles to be having live rodents here (they STINK!!)

Before calling the kettle black.... be sure you aren't the pot first. Converting a Royal may take longer than three weeks, it may take less time. It all depends on the particular Royal, not all are the same. Don't go calling names, he is only looking at the best interest for the animal. I have quite a bit of experience, maybe not on the level of a 'big breeder', but enough to say that he is right.
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Old 08-26-03, 03:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Ballkingdom,
You do have that "I am all-knowing and flawless"kind of attitude that people don't take too kindly to...
Maybe if you changed your approach, people would pay more attention to whatever it is that you saying...
Just a thought...
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Old 08-26-03, 04:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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sometimes people feel more apt to criticizing via the internet b/c its not face to face, not saying that some deserve it, but others could go easier on others.

on a lighter note, the fact that "ALL SNAKES WILL NOT EAT PREKILLED" is a crock, i switched my 7 month from live to prekilled in on feeding! just because their snake wont touch it doesnt mean that all wont, some people need a little bleach in their gene pool!
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Old 08-26-03, 04:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Don't get me wrong, I am terribly happy when one of my balls decides, after a SELF-IMPOSED fast to take a f/t or even a f/k rat. I have a few that eat f/k or f/t, and I love it. However, I am not going around calling all f/t feeders idiots and morons. I understand that as a snake owner, you will do what is most comfortable for you, not always the snake. Yes, there is a fear of damage to the snake, however, not from parasites, as someone mentioned. Rodent parasites are host-specific and are of no harm to snakes. If you are a newbie, which seemd to be a popular excuse here, I could understand the mistakes taken when feeding live. If you are feeding live to watch the kill, you need help. I will feed my snakes whatever I want, I have not harmed ONE of my snakes. Yet you do not see me coming on here and chastising f/t feeders? Whatever worksd for you. My snakes have NEVER been bitten, and if you practice common sense, (which coincidentally is not all that common), you can avoid them ever being bitten. There is no need to be abrasive, condescending, and sanctamonious about your own beliefs. Nuff said. If I came across as either rude or ignorant in my couple previous posts, I apologize, there are more than enough of 'those people' here.
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Old 08-26-03, 04:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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As a sidenote, did you come on this somewhat harmonious site to stir up sh**? You throw out a 'hot' topic and sit back and watch?! People like you have tried, failed and then sunk into obscurity. You're hopefully next.
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Old 08-26-03, 04:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Personally I think you're right, Ballkingdom, why risk the well being of your snake[s] just to watch it kill something (which is a right crappy reason for getting a snake, and I've heard people talk like that in pet stores). But as others have already said, a more positive approach might have worked a bit better... some of them might have seen the benefits of f/t and seriously thought about it until their backs were put up...
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Old 08-26-03, 05:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
I am in no way an ignorant keeper. Just because a big breeder feeds live doesn't justify it. <b>I know all my stuff I'll ever need to know on ball pythons.</b>
I have had leopard geckos for 13 years. I've been changing and modifying the way I keep them and breed them all that time. I still learn.

I, myself, never trust anyone who claims to know it all and could never learn more. You will find, when dealing with groups like the one you mentioned, most people will also feel that way. You may be right or wrong, but people will be indignant because of your attitude.
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Old 08-26-03, 07:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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WOW, that was a long read.

Ballkingdom, welcome to ssnakess. Maybe the yahoo forums are better off for people who don't know what the hell they are talking about. That said, *shakes finger* watch your tone, young man. LOL.

The part of that who email thread that I found the most hilarious was the guy who called you down for your "sacramonious" attitude. Sacramonious? Hmmmm.... I don't mean to sound SANCTIMONIOUS here, but if you're going to try to sound more intelligent than you are, at least use real words.

Stick around here, Ballkingdom. You have to anyway.... you just opened Pandora's box around any snake forum... the good ol' live prey debate!

Get your helmets everyone.....
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Old 08-26-03, 07:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
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People will always do what they want to do.inform them then walk away no more no less.MANY people with MANY years of experiance feed live when you have been breeding for 20 some odd years you usually know whats up
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Old 08-26-03, 08:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Lol, I agree Invictus. And I had to laugh when I read this post, because many of the facts were wrong. Your main point is right.... sort of. Feeding live can be dangerous. But you could have gone about telling the guy in a bit of a nicer way... instead of biting his head off. And no matter how hard you try, some snakes just dont like eating f/k or f/t. They just dont. There might be some magical secret method of getting them to eat, but we havn't found it yet. Next time, tell him what he did wrong nicely, and a bit of advice might not turn into a pile of insults. ~TR~
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Old 08-26-03, 08:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Mykee, just curious how do you restrain the rats, is it the same as stunning them? Thanks.
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Old 08-26-03, 08:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Ah, what the hell... I didn't really put in my opinion in the last post, but I'll jump in. *straps on helmet*

The problem I have with most BP owners is that they don't even TRY to give their BP pre-killed prey. They use the usual bunk about it being "more natural" blah blah blah. I'm sick to death of this argument. I've seen both mice and rats attack something they feel to be a threat. I don't give a rat's a$$ (neat pun, eh! hehe) how much you "supervise" a live prey feeding, that mouse or rat can do more damage in half a second than you can even begin to imagine. All you are doing is watching your snake die. That said, by all means, if it's starvation or live prey, give it live prey. But at least TRY, and I don't mean offer it once and give up, to get them onto prekilled. Once any snake gets used to it, that is what they will feed on from thereon in. So, more natural or not, the bottom line is, do you want a dead snake, or a live, healthy one? Sooner or later the law of averages will catch up, and you will have a snake that gets its eyes gouged out by a rat.
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