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Old 08-19-03, 04:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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reptile shop rant

*growl* Okay. There is this reptile shop in Tampa that I go to regularly. I got one of my snakes there (BCI). I thought this shop was good: they take good care of their animals (proper requirements, etc) and breed a lot of their own stock. Well, the owner, Fernando, is still in Daytona on vacation (he went there for the reptile show), and he left this 18 year old girl and some 10 year old kid (i think they are his family) to watch the shop. I went in there, and I asked the girl if Fernando was back yet, and if he had brought anything interesting back from the show. She informed me that he was not back, but that he had bought some BRB's to breed from some breeder. I asked her how old they were, and she said they were still hatchlings. Well, then I asked her, "are they from the same clutch?". She said, "yes, I think so. We got them both from the same breeder." So I went on to tell her that inbreeding is not cool and that they shouldn't do that. And she said "we inbreed a lot of our snakes and have never had a problem..". I was like MY GOD. I can't believe this. I bought my snake from them. Does this mean that my snake could be an inbred snake? I'm disgusted and upset, seeing as my snake has not had a bowel movement since I've had her (and this has been two months). Now it all makes sense. I got angry and went off about how stupid that is, and how I'll never come back to this shop again. I thought this shop was a good shop, a place for herpers to come and get good quality animals. I was wrong.
Anyway, do you think I overreacted? How common is inbreeding?
Do you think I had a right to be upset? My grandmother (who knows nothing about herps!) thinks that I majorly overreacted. I feel that I was right. I don't know. I guess I was just shocked.
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Old 08-19-03, 05:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it would make a difference if the snake had been inbred over various generations, but otherwise I don't think you'd encounter TOO much of a problem.

As far as the pooping thing, have you tried putting the snake in warm water/massaging the body?
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Old 08-19-03, 05:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yes, I have. She pooed out just a little bit, but it wasn't enough to be a real bowel movement. I'm taking her to the vet this week.
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Old 08-19-03, 06:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Probably 90% of all the snakes in North America are inbred, Kristina. How do you think pattern morphs / variations come about? Offspring are selectively bred to their siblings to bring out certain colors or patterns.

As I said in a previous thread, ALL Albino boas came from ONE specimen. Same with Albino burms. Inbreeding only becomes a problem after long lineages of inbreeding. Remember, snake genes are NOT human genes. So yes, I'd say you overreacted. Breeding unrelated pairs is definitely better, but there is very little harm in inbreeding.
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Old 08-20-03, 05:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You were talking to someone that does not do the breeding and probably has no idea on how this other person breeds his snake's. So if you were that upset i would talk to the breeder not the person looking after the store and go from there.

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Old 08-20-03, 12:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Invictus
Probably 90% of all the snakes in North America are inbred, Kristina. How do you think pattern morphs / variations come about? Offspring are selectively bred to their siblings to bring out certain colors or patterns.

As I said in a previous thread, ALL Albino boas came from ONE specimen. Same with Albino burms. Inbreeding only becomes a problem after long lineages of inbreeding. Remember, snake genes are NOT human genes. So yes, I'd say you overreacted. Breeding unrelated pairs is definitely better, but there is very little harm in inbreeding.
Would the same go for all reptiles?
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Old 08-20-03, 12:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree with Invictus, and to answer TimF I would say that it goes with a lot of animals on the market. Breeding is a subject that we can talk about for years, just look at us human look at your family tree we all might be surprise, Just look at your last name do you think they were thousands in the beginning. So I think you over reacted. But the real problem is over inbreeding. they should always inject new blood in a line after awhile. So you should go back the store and talk with the ď breederĒ nobody else Ďcause often, employees donít know what they are talking about. That way all your questions will be answered. Donít forget that inbreeding doesnít always mean bad stock. Your snake could be in excellent health even if he was inbreed.
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Old 08-20-03, 01:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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thanks for your replies. The reason I reacted the way I did was because I have read that inbreeding causes weak immune systems and inbred animals can be prone to RI and such. Is this true or was I given false information? I understand that some inbreeding is done. I mean, I'm not stupid. Everything inbreeds at one time or another. But, brothers and sisters from the same clutch? I don't know, that just doesn't seem right to me. Thanks again, though. Definately a learning experience. I will talk to the breeder this Friday when he returns.
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Old 08-20-03, 01:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ohh_Kristina. Of course inbreeding can be bad, mixing brothers and sister over and over canít do nothing good in the long run. That is why you should talk with the breeder. Donít be too aggressive, because he is going to lie to you and say that is not doing it. And itís good to be concern about the practices of your snake shop. You want to have the best possible snake, in good health and all. So go to your snake shop and talk with the proper people. If you learn that they over inbreed than Iím sure youíll know what to do and of course let them known what you thinkÖ

p.s nobody thinks you are stupid
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Old 08-20-03, 04:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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"As I said in a previous thread, ALL Albino boas came from ONE specimen. Same with Albino burms. "

Are you 100% sure of this because I know its not true with albino boa's My father has pictures of 2 different albino boa's from the 70's
as for Burms I am quite sure there was far more then one
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Old 08-20-03, 06:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I am sure about the boas. One of the breeders I deal with here has the full history. Maybe not albino burms, but the fact is, albinism is an absolute freak gene. It is NOT so common that it can be found as often as you find it today without some serious inbreeding. Luckily, as more people get into hets, it means the bloodlines are starting to outcrop a little more. But unfortunately for most burms, it's too late. They've been inbred for so long, you pretty much can't get one that isn't weakened by the inbreeding.

Nonetheless, this is after MANY generations of inbreeding. And I don't mean 3 or 4. I'm talking in the DOZENS here.
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Old 08-20-03, 08:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well obviously its very rare in the wild but its easy to spot I am sure that there was more then ONE albino boa found in the wild and i dont doubt they were inbred Eye Problems like that just dont magicly appear but i am sure there was more then one albino boa if you look in old national geographics some of them have albino boa's from late 70's early 80's I bet the huge population of albino boa's we have now is from 5-10 snakes maybe more maybe less i dont know but i am sure its not just one
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