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Old 08-19-03, 02:18 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Hmmmm... Interesting post....... Here's my thoughts.
You must train hard and eat right. 80% of it is in your nutrition and 20% is sweat in the gym. The most important is PROTIEN, you should consume 1.5 grams of protien per lean body weight. If you weigh 184lbs you should have 277-278 grams per day, now divide it by 40. Eat 40 grams per meal and spread it out through the day. I rarely eat carbs, only right after cardio and training so your muscles can get back it's glycogen stores. To train naturally, you must have enough rest for your working and growing muscles. Try this schedule:
3-4 excercise per bodypart. 8-10 reps for 3-4 sets Max.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: Legs( Quads& Hamstrings)
Friday: Arms( Biceps&Triceps)
Saturday: Abs&Calves
Sunday: Rest
Then you do it all over again, To train naturally you need the rest, but train hard and short. The workouts should last around 45- 60 minutes. This schedule will ensure you have enough rest and each workout you will be stronger and lifting heavier!
Here's a post workout drink recipe muscle gains and size: Control your insulin and use it for your benefit!
Insulin is a powerful hormone that is in your body, too much of it will make you fat as a house. But if you can harness it's power you can make DRAMATIC gains!, cause insulin acts as a transport system to take all nutrients to your muscles and make them stronger and fuller, which will make them bigger and grow! Carbs induces insulin, specificly simple carbs, such as sugar. Protien will slow and shut it down.
So here's the recipe:
60 grams of dextrose( corn sugar, you can use regular sugar but dextrose is much better.)
5-10 grams of creatine
10 grams of Glutamine( Amino acid that plays a MAJOR role in muscle synthesis and recovery)
100 grams of Alpha lipoic acid( another insulin stimulator)
1 cup of juice
mix it up and drink it RIGHT AFTER your workout. Wait half an hour( for the insulin spike) Then drink 40-50 grams of pure protien shake. This post workout drinks will be the most important thing, without it you will make little if any gains.
There is the recipe for guaranteed size and strength NATURALLY!
Well thought I'd post my 2 cents! If you have any more questions, let me know.
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Old 08-19-03, 08:39 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Good post KaHane

And congrats on your hard work. I've seen you we've never spoken. I agree with you 100% on all your info. I would like to add a little from my "years" back in 1993-1994. I found your workout schedule perfect when "on". Promotes huge mustle and a bit of strength gain. When I hit the upper-intermediate stage of training that's what I used.

In the beginning I used a two on one off routine over 6 days

Day1- Chest and Bi's (three exercises (sp) chest (30min max), three bi's (20min max)

Day2- Back and Tri's (agian three exercises, these are reverse pyramids working up to max then reping back down)

Day3- Rest

Day4- Delts and Traps (Hard, heavy and 50 mins max)

Day5- Legs (squats, squats, squats, and hams, 30min max, its all u need if you giver)

Day6- Rest

Day7- Start back with Day1

Times are right on the money. As you know the more inactive you are (ie: don't expend piles of exertion and energy at work) and shock the body hard, then offer it exactly what you said FOOD. You will grow well. As you grow accustomed to your workout, change the routine but I find that required every 8-10 months min. Gained 30lbs in 30days, promtly lost it all. Good 'ol test. Kept the strength though.

I find the big difference in training is that if you are "on" train to grow and gain strength in all mustle groups. If you are not (almost everyone) focus on a single mustle group at a time. Put the extra effort in that mustle and cut back just a little on the others. Rotate the focused mustle group every 2-3 months. The body has only so much recouperablility. I learnt and will allways train like a bodybuilder, heavyish, pumping, taxing. The body clean CANNOT build all groups at the same time. Get hooked on training that way and you give up the gym and training. Sad but true.

Dave
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Old 08-19-03, 09:34 AM   #33 (permalink)
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See, everyone has their own take on a routine. basically, you once you start on a beginner routine (important to get a solid base), then you can customize it to fit your needs. The workout drink described above is good, however, Creatine is not a good thing in EVERYBODY. Sure, it will produce results, but there are side effects in SOME body types. Everything else stated was correct, HOWEVER, Kahane, your regiment is based on your routine that is probably not a beginner's routine. THis gentleman wants to START training. So, he's gotta go simple in my opinion. ie. 6 days is an overload. a 4-day split to get a base is much better imho. you do have a pretty good routine though. I may steal that! haha... and interesting drink and nutrition comments. They are very true. What breakfast foods do you eat that are low carb? I find it difficult to find any, other than eggs. Cheers all, and great posts!
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Old 08-19-03, 09:36 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Old 08-19-03, 09:39 AM   #35 (permalink)
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oh, I disagree in the 1.5X your body weight in protein. your body can only absorb 30 grams at a time (some say 34 grams). This lasts for a couple hours. anything in addition is wasteful, and does nothing. Personally, in April ( I think april anyway) I weighed 210lbs. I ate 200 grams a day and have gained 10 lbs. in muscle in the last few months. I have spoken with some very serious builders that think over your body weight in wasteful. See, that's the thing.... everyone has their own thoughts. So long as it's right for you, that you are not wrong in whatever you do (provided you stay natural.... unnatural is cheating!! haha). So, really, experiment a little with routines and nutrition supplements. Good luck, and this is a killer thread...
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Old 08-19-03, 10:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I think the program I've put out is good for beginners and advanced trainers. It all comes down to what will actually burn you out and overtrain? If you put 100% to a bodypart per session/day and keep your training time to an hour or less, you won't overtrain. You can only overtrain if you workout for too long and/or your NUTRITION is lacking. See you trian each body part per day and by the time you train it again, it would have a weeks of recuperation. The key is to train with enough intensity so it needs a week to recuperate and get stronger. As for the 1.5 grams of protein per bodyweight, I believe in low carb diet and the extra protein is for back up just incase you body needs it. I only consume large amounts of carbs in the morning, after my cardio and mid day after my traing session. This way, you can stay lean and still build strength and muscle. Also Protien is the major building block, you must take into consideration that your body uses up proteins for your hair, bones, skin, teeth and pratically every organ in your body daily! Before it is used for muscle building. Your body doesn't really care if you get built, it only cares about recovering what is needed daily to survive. So by the time it has used the protein for it's daily rebuliding of body tissues, what would be left over? That is why I am a firm believer of extra protein. If you want to build muscle, would you risk not having enough protien( the building block) or having extra. Also when you take in protien, you burn alot more calories while digesting it(Lose weight and get cut while you are eating!)
As for the old myth of 30 grams only digestable per meal, I used to believe that that was true. Until I realized that, how could a guy that say weights 120lbs and say a football player that weights 300lbs digest the only the same amount per meal? Then why would the bigger guy need more food or he will be straving!! Cause the bigger you are the more protien you need to maintain or increase your size. I think how many grams you could digest is related and porportioned to the size of the person. But there must be limitations, probably 30 is minimum and 60 would be the MAX.
Well that's my oppinion on why extra protien is essential, but if another way works that's great also. Just wanted to explain more The next topic should be essential fatty acids! the REAL most important element.
Great topic and thread guys!
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Old 08-19-03, 10:52 PM   #37 (permalink)
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For anyone starting out with weight training I highly recommnd Bill Phillips Body for Life... when I first heard of this I was skeptical, but I;ve got freinds that have been on it, and yes it does work, after seeing my freinds, I fully beleive those before and after pictures. I'm just starting out on it myself. but by far in terms of equipment, a good set of dumbbells and a bench is all you need. you can work out every body this this simple setup.

With the Bill Phillips system, nutrition becomes easy, weight lifting is done 3 times a week, cardio is also done 3 times a week. And the workouts are short time wise, but they burn far more than what what i was tought in college!
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Old 08-19-03, 11:55 PM   #38 (permalink)
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"They call me Buddah at work cuz I'm a big fat bald guy!"

Lol you should get a t-shirt made that says "I ate Buddah so leave me alone"
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Old 08-20-03, 11:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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KaHane I like your routine. Mine is pretty similar except I take two days off and do calves and abs more than once a week. However, I still dissagree with everyone that suggests this kid takes all these drugs. He is a freshman in highschool and is too young to start hitting it that hard. The only thing I would even let him use if he were my kid was protein shakes. Also, he can work out in the gym every day for 2 hours, but if he doesnt have proper form he wont do anything but hurt himself.
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Old 08-21-03, 12:00 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I totally agree about being Natural, there's nothing I've suggested that is any type or form of drug. I only suggest natural suppliments to aid and increase your progress. I've been training since I was 12 and learned that nothing will beat HARD WORK and KNOWLEDGE. You must be flexible and adapt to the changes your body makes and do what is needed to acheive your goals. I'm not a big guy, but I am physically fit and healthy. Your health is the most important thing.
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Old 10-13-03, 02:48 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaHane
Hmmmm... Interesting post....... Here's my thoughts.
You must train hard and eat right. 80% of it is in your nutrition and 20% is sweat in the gym. The most important is PROTIEN, you should consume 1.5 grams of protien per lean body weight. If you weigh 184lbs you should have 277-278 grams per day, now divide it by 40. Eat 40 grams per meal and spread it out through the day. I rarely eat carbs, only right after cardio and training so your muscles can get back it's glycogen stores. To train naturally, you must have enough rest for your working and growing muscles. Try this schedule:
3-4 excercise per bodypart. 8-10 reps for 3-4 sets Max.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: Legs( Quads& Hamstrings)
Friday: Arms( Biceps&Triceps)
Saturday: Abs&Calves
Sunday: Rest
Then you do it all over again, To train naturally you need the rest, but train hard and short. The workouts should last around 45- 60 minutes. This schedule will ensure you have enough rest and each workout you will be stronger and lifting heavier!
Here's a post workout drink recipe muscle gains and size: Control your insulin and use it for your benefit!
Insulin is a powerful hormone that is in your body, too much of it will make you fat as a house. But if you can harness it's power you can make DRAMATIC gains!, cause insulin acts as a transport system to take all nutrients to your muscles and make them stronger and fuller, which will make them bigger and grow! Carbs induces insulin, specificly simple carbs, such as sugar. Protien will slow and shut it down.
So here's the recipe:
60 grams of dextrose( corn sugar, you can use regular sugar but dextrose is much better.)
5-10 grams of creatine
10 grams of Glutamine( Amino acid that plays a MAJOR role in muscle synthesis and recovery)
100 grams of Alpha lipoic acid( another insulin stimulator)
1 cup of juice
mix it up and drink it RIGHT AFTER your workout. Wait half an hour( for the insulin spike) Then drink 40-50 grams of pure protien shake. This post workout drinks will be the most important thing, without it you will make little if any gains.
There is the recipe for guaranteed size and strength NATURALLY!
Well thought I'd post my 2 cents! If you have any more questions, let me know.
So I quoted Kahane here because I beleive that he speaks the truth for building serious mass.

But not everyone is built like kahane. If your a thin build you might be whats called a hard gainer. What Kahane describes here is a VERY serious workout routine for a VERY serious body builder. Do not fret you too can have the body you have always wanted.

First look up hard gainer. Second Start doing legs and back. Your legs and Back produce the most testosterone. You will build muscle more readily with higher testosterone levels.

Personally I see better gains with a 2 day weight lifting 1 day cardio split. I am personally a hard gainer. I have alot of trouble gaining weight in any fashion. I do legs every day, its either a Squat or a Dead lift of some sort.
If you want to get big, YOU MUST DO LEGS AND BACK. My exercise list is usually, 2x20 squat or deadlift I do squats on one day and deadlift on the other. every exercise I do a 1x20 warmup with a very light weight
On both days I do 1x8 curls of some sort
2x8 rows of some sort
2x6 bench press
2x20 calf raises
2x8 over head press w/dumbells usually
2x10 close grip pull ups normal or reversed with no warmup.

You want to increase your weight and rotate your workout.
So if you do preacher curls one week you want to do concentration curls or some other curl the next week.
Keep a record of how much you do and how many times you do it.
you always want to keep increasing your weights.

Never work out to failure more then once a week. This will help reduce the affect on the central nervous system and might help your immune system stay strong.

Working out can make you sick if you over do it. Remember to do cardio 2 times a week or more for 30 minutes a day. I do a 20 minute warmup on a stationary bike before I do any workout too.

And EAT EAT EAT, take your vitamins and drink LOTS of water.

If you don't want to spend alot of money on vitamins, I suggest a good multi vitamin, one that has individual vitamins, a bottle of 2222 amino pills and take them as recommended, myoplex whey protien powders work good for me, and follow kahanes directions on when to take them and what he says about drinking juice right after a workout, what he says about the insulin is correct.

www.abcbodybuilding.com has a great list of exercises with pictures.
www.extreme-athlete.com has a great forum.
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Old 10-15-03, 05:10 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I can't believe I missed out on this forum, finally a topic I know about and I missed the whole thing. Well anyway as a person who holds a degree in sports science as well a certified personal trainer and sports nutritionist with years of personal training experience I have to say alot of people here have shown an impressive amount knowledge on the topic although there are a few points I would disagree with (Kahane your program and nutri info are great but I don't think you have enough complete rest days scheduled in there for a natural body's recuperative ability, the body needs complete days off for total neaural recooperation, following the philosophy that training with short intense work outs and good nutrition with only 1-2 bodyparts per work out a week will not lead to over training because each part has a weeks rest then we should be able to train indefinately, however truth is we must take complete rest days off for total recovery, two days a week is good but I recommend three for beginners).

The most important thing to remember is that every person is unique and your program must be unique to you...pm me with your stats and current routine and I will help you out, also Lord Kovacs I just got in today so I will send you that program and info you asked me for like a week ago (sorry about that I was away for awhile). Excellent thread people, glad for once it stayed off the roid topic and just focused on work outs, nice and clean. Damn sorry I missed it. Also supplement wise creatine is a 1000% safe even the IOC allows it and another top notch supplement is ZMA add that to your program for great recovery
and huge strength increases.
Brent.
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Old 10-15-03, 05:16 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Also one point on Arnolds book. I am a HUGE Arnold fan and the info in the book as well as the pics are fantastic but I would not follow Arnolds recommended routines if I was you, training the whole body three times a week is way to much for 99% of people Arnold was very gifted genetically and very few could do what he could not to mentionm he had the add of roids, very few other pro's even ones better then Arnold would follow such a routine, it is just too much and will burn you out. You are not Arnold, let Arnold train Arnolds way you have to train your way. Which will take time to find but I will try to help you. Good Luck!
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Old 10-15-03, 07:11 PM   #44 (permalink)
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...

I agree with Sunrunner. Every "body" is different, and thus should be trained accordingly. Plus everyone's goals can be radically different as well. That's why they have personal trainers. To recognize your body type/fitness level, and then build a program to realistically reach your goals.
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Old 10-15-03, 08:01 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I would love to get seriously in to working out, but its not as easy from home. I keep trying to learn as much as I can on the topic and have been getting more and more in to it than I ever have been. Personally, the gym intimidates me... I wouldn't know what I was doing... and even still I don't have the financial situation to afford a membership I hate cardio with a passion... partly because I have breathing problems, other part because I jsut do not find it enjoyable. I love weights though. All I have at home are 5 lb dumbells and a 10 lb barbell I do an hour of pilates, then I do more ab work, followed by weights, then a few miscellaneous excercises. I do this 5-6 days a week usually. I try to go running once or twice a week... but I can't anymore because this weather winds me in a second and I experience terrible throat, chest, and head pain I hate the stationary bike... I think I use it 5x a year I've been getting Mike to teach me more excercises to I can do with the weights. I quit drinking for one month and the results were incredible I've pretty much come down to only consuming alcohol a couple times a month, if that. I'm always told how alcohol kills off the hormone that builds muscle, but wow... I never expected results like that. It was very encouraging and inspiring to say the least I've always worked out here and there for years, but lately I've actually become quite serious about it. I guess its a new hobby for me

Syst3m,
Thanks for the links!
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