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Old 08-13-03, 09:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Cloning snakes??

Wouldn't this be a great idea? Since some species are so difficult to breed, why not clone? And theres plenty of species to name that are high on demand. For example GTPs, that'd cost u an arm and a leg. It would be interesting to see the cloning industries selling cloned snakes in high quantities at low prices.

hopefully some day it would happen. this is just a thought, share your opinions.
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Old 08-13-03, 09:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Cloning is even harder then breeding, and uses pretty much the same methods as breeding sans intercourse.
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Old 08-13-03, 09:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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sooner or later, it'll be quite possible and quicker with anything. I saw it on Discovery channel. Its hard to explain but it seemed like a simple procedure(not that simple, but u know what i mean).
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Old 08-13-03, 09:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think that the cloning of animals should only be used on endangered species........but thats just my opinion!
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Old 08-13-03, 09:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Cloning Snakes? Why? Some species may be "difficult" to breed, but they are bred in great numbers each year. And I hardly find $200 - $400 for an GTP an arm and a leg. That is not much, get a Black Head. Not only that, but inbreeding for morphs is bad enough, let's produce the SAME snake over and over again. Let's diminish the gene pool more.

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It would be interesting to see the cloning industries selling cloned snakes in high quantities at low prices.
We have enough breeders that act like puppy mills. I would like to see the price of herps go UP. They are far to cheap right now and accessible to anyone.

I'm done. I may revis it it when I have more than 5 minutes to type.
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Old 08-13-03, 10:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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the expense of the proceedure would make for very expensive snakes, the complexity makes for high doubt of it occuring, and the offspring of cloned animals would always be suspect. I think it would actually drive the price of non-cloned animals sky high, plus give the trade a new way to rip people off
 
Old 08-13-03, 10:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I Agree, Lets Not play G-d and let nature take it place.
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Old 08-14-03, 12:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally posted by BWSmith
I would like to see the price of herps go UP. They are far to cheap right now and accessible to anyone.

and why would you like to see it go up? makes no sence. Its too cheap and accessible to anyone? If anything it would be for the better. I would like to see more people getting started in this hobby. If it weren't for the cheap colubrids i bought a few years back, i wouldn't have liked snakes as much as i do now. I dont understand your points sorry, maybe in a sellers stand point i'd think differently.

Btw i've never seen GTP for 400-500$...


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I Agree, Lets Not play G-d and let nature take it place.
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ha, thats the only us humans dont do...

Last edited by Solid Snake; 08-14-03 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 08-14-03, 01:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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remeber that he is in the states, 400-500 there is way more here, plus animals are genereally cheaper there anyway.

I agree, I dont like the fact that anyone can go into a pet store buy some snake and kill it in a few days (or any animal for that matter). In my little experience there are too many stupid people buying from too many stupid pet stores. maybe educational shows at schools or community halls etc is a better way of getting people "into" it, istead of letting people listen to the petco and being very dissapointed in a few days...

My view on the subject.
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Old 08-14-03, 02:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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...

The higher the price, the less disposable the animal. I agree with Kyle.
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Old 08-14-03, 06:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I am with Brian on this one..... Especialy when it comes to venomous species...... If the price is up it will keep most people from buying them and only the more dedicated keepers will buy them...... Lets face it, if you have 75 bucks in your pocket you can buy a gaboon viper or a cobra....... And GTPs can be bought for 400 to 500 easily...... You Canadians need to get out to the States more often......LOL..... Prices in Canada are way higher than they are here in the US......
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Old 08-14-03, 07:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I think cloning is totally WRONG! Not even for medical perposes. It certainly shouldn't be done just so we can keep the exact "Designer" snake we want.

I also think that our hobby is too easy for the total amateur to get into & Kill the poor thing in a day or 2, just because they don't know what they're getting into.

Nature managed before science, let nature do its own thing.
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Old 08-14-03, 07:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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You'd have the same problems as when you try to save a clutch of eggs that had to be surgically removed from the mother anyway. Since those eggs wouldn't go through the mother's shell gland and cloaca shortly before being laid, they would not get any of her antibodies or beneficial bacteria the way eggs laid naturally do.

Most of those surgically harvested eggs prove to be infertile. Those that hatch often produce snakes with horribly weak immune systems and digestive problems.
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Old 08-14-03, 07:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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If anything it would be for the better. I would like to see more people getting started in this hobby.
Remember that Quality is much more inmportant than quantity. I would not mind few less keepers and have them more knowledgable and/or committed.

If the price of snakes were to rise, then every kid with $10 bucks in their pocket could not get that "Garden Snake" or Cornsnake. I spend more on a pack of cigarettes than I do on a baby Corn. I spend more on a 12 pack of medeocre beer than a Ball Python. The price has been dropped so low on many species that we have soomed them. People often think that you get what you pay for. How much respect would neducated buyers give a $5 snake or iguana? They have become "Disposable Pets". And it is our own fault. The market is saturated. The low dollar animals are being bred and/or imported by the thousands. Last I heard, about 10,000 Ball Pythons were imported each year just into the US. That is not including the thousands that are bred here each year. I am in no way condemning breeders. Most keepers have or will breed at some point. It is the natural progression of the hobby. But there is a reason that certain species are more expensive. They are harder to get and/or difficult to breed. If anyone could do it, then everyone would. Doctors charge alot of money, that is because what they do is difficult.

Trying to cut corners generally has concequences down the road. Alot of breeders already cut corners by shameless line breeding. One snake in that line has a bad gene that predisposes it to a bad health condition, then all the subsequent snakes in that line are also predisposed to it. Look at RI in Burm Morphs. Rather than taking the time to do some outbreeding to produce a stronger genetic line, many cut corners and line breed to get results as quickly as possible. Cloning takes this to a new level. Not only are we not divirsifying the gene pool, but it becomes stagnant. And just like any stagnant "pool", it is a hot bed for disease and other problems (good analogy huh? ).

Not to mention that the idea of a herp "factory" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I realize that you were just throwing out an idea and noone is trying to be mean. It is a good topic and one that I have not seen come up before. It is a nice change from "my snake won't eat" A little more philosophical. But back to the subject:

Cloning snakes is also financially unfeasible. We can produce actual diamonds in the lab. But the cost of production is tremendously higher thanto just buy a real diamond. And we have had this technology for years. Even some of the more expensive snakes would not come near the cost to "manufacture" them.

And like many others, I would have moral issues with it. I would not even want severely endangered animals to be cloned. The lack of gene diviersity in certain species is bad enough. Look at Bengal Tigers. They have been inbred for so long in captivity that white tigers are now the Dominant gene. If we have brought an animal that close to extinction, then all we can really do is try to preserve what is left, not produce 1000 replicas of the same particular specimen. All that would be doing is genetically depleting the species as a whole and stape off extinction for a while longer with no long term benifits.

I just need to go to one of these labs and have them produce 1000 more BWSmiths and I gurantee that they would see the errs in cloning and shut the doors.
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Old 08-14-03, 01:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Personally I don't think I want people in this hobby who cannot afford the current prices, if they cannot afford the initial investment how can they afford feeding, vet care and emergencies?. BWSmith is right. Corns are a dime a dozen same with balls. Do we really want just ANYONE owning a GTP becuse they cost 100 bucks?

Not me. If you can't afford whats out there, you don't get whats out there. Same with cars. Want a ferrari, you save for it. If you don't save you are driving a Honda (cornsnake)

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