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Old 06-25-03, 04:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I came upon this Letter to the Editor in the Province Paper

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/thep...2CC3E3&rnd=464

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/thep...F-904DD73EF2F5

I have forwarded my own response to the editor.. and I think you should too..

Letters to the editor
provletters@png.canwest.com

to the article writer
kspencer@png.canwest.com

Please notice that no rebuttle to the original newsletter is being printed. Just the pro side.. what is up with that...?
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Old 06-25-03, 04:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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that second letter is such crap. most of my reptile's have formed a bond with me. thats all i can write for now. cause it's time to leave work.
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Old 06-25-03, 04:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I can tell you one thing for sure is that if I ever stop in Surrey again it will be at the "Rainforest Reptile Refuge" (1395, 176 st) & it will to be to talk to Christine Schramm. The conversation won't be a pleasant one as I will proceed to "tear her a new one" based on all the B.S. she has stirred up with her unfair biased opinion. People like her do nothing but create negative press for people like "us". I would urge everyone who has yet to contact the city of Surrey to complain/vent to do so now. If you choose to do nothing about it, then I expect to hear no complaints from you in the future when you too may be exposed to such nonsense in your area. Its crazy on how a few extreme radicals such as Christine S. can sway the uninformed's opinions & cause such Bylaws to even be considered. Like I said no reason to sit back & let this B.S. take place do whatever you can to help out these Surrey folk & their backwards, closeminded fools, opps I mean councilmen, make the proper choices. Mark IsBell - GONE SNAKEE!
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Old 06-25-03, 05:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here we go again.

Some times things just can't make sence. In Edmonton, the city put in dog restrictive bylaws last year. They just had a reviewal of the laws yesterday. Even though the "pitt bull" breeds didn't make the top 20 biting dogs in the country, they are the only ones still restricted. Whats a person to do??? We'll fight these laws again and ask more Q's to the powers that be.
As for the proposed bylaws for reptiles in BC. It seems that you are facing some inevidable facts.
If the powers that be want it, they usually get it, so be prepared for the laws to be passed and soon.
I was talking to a friend in Victoria recently, who works for bylaws.
He said there was a descussion of reptiles and the laws which govern them.
This is FACT not fiction.
There are no laws to regulate the ownership of these animals.
Here in Edmonton, you may only have 3 dogs per house hold, but NO restrictions on the # of reptiles you may own. This is the norm throughout Canada.
This was the biggest concern for the SPCA and bylaw officers.
Just wondering if you out there would agree to regestering your herps and being limited to the # per household, and paying a fee to ownthem as dog and cat owners do.
This could allow for people to keep what they want and the "powers" to help maintain the populations and care for the animals. You would also know some or all of the animals medical history if they had been registered, like a dog.

Just my opinion

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Old 06-25-03, 05:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just replied with a letter to the editor, and I strongly second the above posts. It is up to each and every one of us to express our opinions related to this issue, and to be sure our arguements are based on facts, vs. their arguements based on fears and misinformation.
As for restricting the number of reptiles in private collections..give me a break. By nature, reptiles and the care of them can not be compared to cats and dogs. Period. 10 dogs in your house and 10 snakes in your house are two very different issues. Whats next...no more than two goldfish , and by the way, they must have a tag???????
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Old 06-25-03, 05:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Eeeeeeeeeeeer that second post by the lady made me mad!!! I mean....how does she know for a FACT that they do not enjoy being in captivity??? Is she a bull crap animal psychic that can read their minds???
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Old 06-25-03, 05:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Its the same ol' Bull Sh*t story if it's not cute and cuddle it's not for people.
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Old 06-25-03, 05:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Alright I have Had it we have been fighting this crap And I havnt been helping Whats the course of action? What are we going to do? This strikes close to home and it really pisses me off anyone thats organizing soem thing for us to fight back let me know PM me and ? I will do what I can
Bryce
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Old 06-25-03, 05:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hi Damien long time no see/hear. In reguards to registration & limited #'s of animals it is a good idea for petowners & from others point of view. In reguards to breeders though, serious conflict. If they consider as you suggested they must also be willing to work with people who are currently involved in breeding etc. A special permit or license would be required for them or they will all be out of business or in violation of "new laws". It would not be nessicarily a bad thing for some breeders to be required to do so as it would hopefully eliminate "puppy mill" conditions in certain "breeders" cases as maybe such permits etc. would actually involve an inspection of the premises to make sure everything was up to par & put these "puppy mill types" out of business. I don't really know what to suggest but I don't think registering every snake I ever own would "thrill" me or anyone else for that matter. These people making the laws seem to have very little sense when it comes to them & are strongly biased in doing so. If they actually researched & based bylaws etc. on facts & statistics instead of "old wives tales" & closeminded backwards attitudes maybe people would be more willing to work with them in getting a "proper system" in place. As of right now I'm as Anti-establishment as ever based on the approach of most "councils" in reguards to any laws in reguards to animals or otherwise. I am willing to work with "them" just because I will have no other choice but to do so. Sad but true. Mark
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Old 06-25-03, 05:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Not ot mention that she does not provide the proper care for the animals she "rescues". It's appauling that she can even be condsidered a refuge! I wrote a letter to Kurt Spencer, the reporter of the original column, and I just sent one to the editor. I swear if they don't print it, I will keep on writing until they do. Why in this day and age is it okay for a newspaper to be biased? Give me a break. I cannot even count om my fingers AND toes how many people I know that have been seriously hurt by a dog, but reptiles? NEVER!!!!! Arghhh. I want to scream. I could never imagine how bad I would feel if someone took away any of my reptiles. The worst part is that no one seems to understand what exotics means- good-bye birdies, hamsters and blah, blah, blah too! Could you imagine the fuss if people had their birds taken away? I'm too mad to say anymore!
Julie Banighen!!! Politicians suck a**.
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Old 06-25-03, 06:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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My letter to the editor

Wow what a sensationalistic headline.
"Exotic animals 'live and die in basements"
I think the community would be better served with a headline that accurately reads:
"Exotic animals 'live and die in the Rainforest Reptile Refuge"

I would like to see where the exotics are, that are dying in such just great multitudes?
I think it might serve you well to see what animals, and how many, are being given to the Reptile Refuse in the last couple of years? I would wager to guess NOT many. I have heard tell they have to buy animals to fill their refuge and I am not talking about iguanas and turtles I am talking about snakes. You see its a business for them and you must understand that its in Ms Schrams best interest to say she has lots of animals that come in. Remember there are no animals going out. Imagine the SPCA being run on that principal? All the Cats and Dogs going in but none being adopted out? No euthanasia - You would have about 5,000 per kennel. You could then run around and print "Dogs and Cats "live and die in basements" - That's pretty insane.

Tell me how you can run a reptile rescue without an adoption program? How can you say you care about these animals when you would rather keep them in over crowded, unsanitary conditions? than adopt them out to caring capable individuals? Its ridiculous and insane. The only place these reptiles are dying are in her refuge. Lets dig up their backyard and she just how many animals have needlessly died for her beliefs.

I am wondering if you talked to the Herp clubs in the community? I am sure they can show you how well these exotics are looked after. I think the readership would be better served taking up the cause of abused children in the community, instead of this nonsense of abused reptiles. She should look into licensing parents to keep children, and see where that goes.

Sincerely
T. Piorun

PS: the $3,000 designer snake you are talking about is an albino Burmese python. Price? about $225. Believe me anyone that pays that much for an animal cares about it and if it gets to be too much they find it a good home. Just like any caring person would.
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Old 06-25-03, 06:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mark...I understand your points related to registration, and you raise a good arguement...but 'registration' is something for us to do as an industry/hobby within reptile organizations(provincial/national,etc) so that good can come from it. The cities and municipalities do not and should not manage reptile registrations of any kind, for this would lead to pointless fees and controls. Restricting the number of animals is not appropriate for reptiles regardless of whether you consider yourself a 'hobbiest' or 'breeder', simply because it is not practical to impose restrictions on all parties, regardless of species kept. This 'blanket' approach would damage our ability to keep these wonderful animals. No doubt about it.
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Old 06-25-03, 06:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It just goes to show the lack of education ...... If more people did thier homework we would have way less of a problem

And as for the whole" if u have to keep it in a cage it it isnt a pet "......OMG come on......If my dogs didnt have fenced back yard they would be all over the town.....Shows just how lil education the idiots making the statements have

Really sad ........hopefully we can all help and make these people see that reptiles and thier keepers are not bad just misunderstood.....
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Old 06-25-03, 06:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You know what really got to me? The comment that 'any animal kept in a cage to prevent it from running away is not a pet' or something to effect.

Many bird owners would not agree, and what about the owners of hamsters, rabbits, mice, gerbils and rats? Most of these creatures are considered pets, and many of us started off with something of that nature. (I understand for just as many of us, these creatures are a source of sustinance for our reptiles).

What about fish? Fish are pets, and they aren't kept in aquariums because they'll run away, they need an enclosed space, wether in captivity or in nature. That was absolutely the most preposterous, ignorant and insensitive comment I have EVER read.

Now that I've ranted a little about that, I should throw in the fact, that my iguana and python do not have enclosures. They have rooms. Does that make them non-exotic? NO. I think the authors only want us to have puppies and kitties, (regulating those too, of course). No one will ever eradicate reptiles altogether as pets. Owners would just go underground, (I know I would). Many of us care for these creatures just as much as our mammalian pets; this is something that needs recognition from non-reptilian owners.

I agree that education is the single most important factor in this entire debate. Wether you own reptiles or oppose them, it's important for you to empathize with persons who keep them as companion animals.

They wouldn't want reptile owners banning cats or dogs, would they?
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Old 06-25-03, 06:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Reptile Gallery...

Your attitude is one of the reasons that people push these kinds of laws on herpers.
I never said that dogs and cats care was = to snakes.
But lets face it...3 dogs or 20 snakes. If your properly taking care of your animals, owning this many snakes would take up a vast amount of time, more than the average person would have to spend!
Mark has hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerened.
Breeders should have to be regestered to keep control of populations and conditions. This would also make them accountable to be "legimate"businesses. Taxes and such, but thats another topic all together. It would hopefully eliminate the importing of sickly animals and substandard conditions of snakey-mills. If people are so worried out the "health and safety" of the reptiles of the world, this would be a giant leap for their safety.
hopefully showing others the genuine concerns for safety.

OH yeah....just to finishup with Reptile Gallery.
You can have herps micro-chipped...in case you didn't know.

Damien
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