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Old 06-26-03, 07:31 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Just some interesting information on exotics, and not so exotics.

Donkeys kill more people per year than plane crashes. Who would have thought the cute little docile donkey could have a temper, and deadly accurate kick. A MULE can AIM a kick for best results, I can attest to this, I have been on the receiving end of a couple of these.

Horses kill more people per year than all other exotics combined, including dogs and cats. Funny that there is no law against going to the auction on Saturday to buy the kids a pony, just to have them crater their head into a fence post on Sunday. (This actually happened) I have 3 ounces of titanium in my spine thanks to a horse, they are right above chickens on the animal intelligence scale. Dont get me wrong, I loved horses and grew up in a horse family, they are trainable, but not that smart.

If you do not keep snakes (or reptiles) you are more likely to be bitten by another person than you are to be bitten by a snake.

There are 2 types of people who keep snakes - those who have been bitten, and those that are going to be. Most of us who choose to keep them are aware of this fact.

Working with Great dane rescue for 9 years, I would rather be bitten by a retic than a Dane. I have had my palm bitten clean through by a Dane that was just scared and abused, and it was not his fault.

I did abandon my veterinary career due to the fact that I had completely underestimated human stupidity. My internship left me so disgruntled with people, I wished we were able to neuter them before they had a chance to breed.

When people get all upset over the choices of pets we keep, I wonder how closely they really look at the world around them. Everywhere there is child poverty, sexual abuse and neglect. It does not matter if we are rich or poor, smart or stupid, this is serious stuff happening in our own back yards.

Lets worry about our children and fellow man first, and when we have solved the major issues surrounding humanity, and we are not exhausted with the effort, lets throw ourselves headlong into the petty crap! When we are as concerned for the homeless man dying in the street, as we are for the (reptile) dying in the petstore, I might understand the mentality (or lack thereof) behind this type of crusade.

Just my 2 cents
Sheila
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Old 06-26-03, 08:26 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Send that letter in! That was amazing Sheila!
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Old 06-26-03, 10:52 AM   #48 (permalink)
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My thoughts exactly Gino ! Sheila send that in. I voted for you all out there in B.C. I may have some helpful info coming in as I know there is a city here in Nova Scotia that used to have a snake ban. Yes I said USED TO. It has been removed. As I wasn't very old when this happened I have made some tele calls, sent some letters & e-mail to get the info & specifics. Let's all cross our fingers that I get some news on what happened to change the ban that it can still be used today to help prevent one.
Good luck & hope I can help,Dar.
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Old 06-26-03, 10:55 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Sheila,
You must send that in! Its awesome!
Terri

PS.. i have your site up and running

www.scaleszoo.com

its a work in progress so bear with me.. :-)
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Old 06-26-03, 12:10 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Here's one for our side written by my other half! Way to go Julie.


http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showt...952#post140952

Oh you already posted it ! Thanks Terri!
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Old 06-26-03, 04:16 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Great letters!
Excellent point Sheila. I work on a farm and I know how much damage "a nice little riding pony" can cause.
And I don't remember the last time I saw a headline in the local paper about a pet snake attack.
Yesterdays paper however had a 5 yr old girl attacked by a dog and needs lots of stitches. You see articles like that all the time. That was the front page. The classifieds had numerous ads for "rottweilers, pit bulls....." 300$ and up. Not to mention all the "free puppy" ads from the idiots that don't bother to fix their animals. You don't need any legislation to get them or breed them or even train them mean and let them run free.
Some people just need to have some idiot cause to fight for. It seems like most of them don't care what the cause is or don't bother to get informed first.
What wasted energy. My Grandmother always said "Don't fix what ain't broken". Amen

I think I'll submit some legislation. We need to ban Ice cream trucks! How many children are hit by them each year?
Or lets make it so all hot dogs are square shaped! They are just to easy to choke on round like that. I wonder how many people would sign that if I stood outside a grocery store and peddled it.......
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Old 06-26-03, 07:55 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Hey, well I am far away but hell I figure I will try my best to help. I just wrote up this letter and before I send it I would like you all to read it and offer some suggestions, opinions and possible changes. I borrowed a few quotes from things others on this thread have said. If you would like me to take this off please let me know. Well here it is:

The fact that I must resort to writing this letter is utterly ridiculous in itself. I came across the article “Exotic animals 'live and die in basements'” and I am disgusted. It is absolutely iniquitous that these biased, ignorant opinions be thrown out publicly to the uneducated. Statements such as: "Any animal you put in a cage to keep from running away is not a pet," is a prime example of falsifying reality, a clear biased opinion. I am positive that if this statement was reversed towards rodents, cats, dogs or birds, it would instantaneously be rejected. What I don’t understand is that the husbandry between exotics and these alternate PETS is parallel in that they are both in ‘cages’, and if given the opportunity would likely be inclined to run away. This applies to nearly every pet out there; dogs and cats are not an exception. Exotics owner feel for their snakes and lizards as a dog owner feels towards their dogs. Why then is it fair to strip us of our love and passion? They (exotics) are part of our lives and to wrongfully deprive us of this privilege is preposterous. I will NOT go as far as saying every exotic housed residentially is in a good position, but why let the irresponsibility of a select few others ruin it for the rest of us who dedicate ourselves to care for these magnificent creatures? It simply is not fair. Instead, why can’t we educate the public on the care and dedication involved in owning such animals to try and steer away those who are not capable. I may be backtracking here, but why is it always that the banning of ‘exotics’ is restricted solely to reptiles? What makes them more exotic than a hamster from Siberia, a gerbil from Africa, or a fish (many fish are ruthlessly caught from the wild, to die in pet stores and fish tanks)? For some reason these other animals are perfectly acceptable pets. This wouldn’t happen to be due to the perceived lack of ‘cuteness’ by the general public? I didn’t think so…
If you go up to my first sentence, I started by shaping this issue as ridiculous. Why? That’s simple: the public is so quick to jump on this without a stitch of evidence, or at least enough relevant enough to jump to such drastic measures. Where exactly do you see ‘exotic animals dying in basements? Even if you do take Schramms’ word for having 400+ abandoned animals, how does this compare to the thousands of abandoned and neglected cats and dogs sitting in shelters? Do not get me wrong, I am too a dog lover. My intent here is to show there is a threat in keeping any animal, and we must understand this before obtaining one. There will always be the irresponsible fool who buys on impulse, there is nothing we can do about this besides educate them. All in all, the idea of banning ‘exotics’ is unfairly generated through biased, falsified opinions thrown out to the uneducated public to create an uneducated opinion of reptiles.
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Old 06-26-03, 08:14 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Good letter Gino! You should send a copy to the Surrey City council as well. All these letters to the paper are great but to make a difference we have to also send then to the idiots that are making this by law. Even if it is the same letter it makes the point that this proposed by law is attracting a lot of unwanted attension. Tim.
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Old 06-26-03, 08:57 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Excellent Gino you need to send it to the council like Tim says thats where to make your point. Thats where the effect is made. Thanks for sharing
Terri
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Old 06-27-03, 07:59 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Great I don't have a problem doing this. Do you have an e-mail that I can send it to?
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Old 06-27-03, 08:19 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Well to be safe, I sent it to the Mayor and to every one of his Counsillors. I can't explain how hard it was not to use profanities throughout my letter because this kind of bull really pisses me off. What angers me even more is the public is stupid enough to believe anything thrown at them.
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Old 06-27-03, 08:30 AM   #57 (permalink)
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AH I knew I forgot something. Damien, I too don't agree with you and I don't think anyone could have said it better then Lisa has:

Quote:
As for registering your herps, I only would take this as an option to out right bans. I don't want to voluntarily bring in laws that bring me 1 step closer to bans or more restrictions on what we can and cant keep. proposing to register and restrict herps when there is currently no legislation on the table about them at all is bad, as some places may decide they don't want to deal with the registration and just go for an all out ban.
The highlight of this was when she said proposing this 'restriction' bs IS in fact saying what he are doing here is bad. As she said we ARE shooting ourselves in the foot by doing this.
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Old 06-27-03, 02:25 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I am impressed! I already got some replies from the folks in BC, the council that is:

From: Marie Parent

Dear David Walklate: Thank you for your e-mail. Please note that at the Regular Council meeting held Monday, June 16, 2003, Council decided to enact the Exotic Animal Bylaw No. 14823 dealing with the prohibition of the sale in the City of endangered, exotic, wild and dangerous animals and require staff to hold a public information meeting prior to the introduction of the By-law for final reading. As yet, the date for this public information meeting has not been set, but the public will be given notification about the meeting through advertisements in the local newspapers.

From: Christine Kiverago

Dear David Walklate:
It looks as though your message is incomplete. Would you like to finish it and resubmit? Yours truly, Christine Kiverago Legislative Services

I made a mistake while sending to her, a whole lot got cut off so I will be resending that now. I will update you with their responses.
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Old 06-27-03, 03:46 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Hey guys,
I e-mailed both the e-mails in the post and here is a copy of what I sent.

I wanted to let you know my point of view on these articles:

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/thep...2CC3E3&rnd=464

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/thep...F-904DD73EF2F5

I do not agree on some of the information that was published in these articles.

Some reptiles will die because a few of us do not care properly for them. but I still think there are a large number of us that do care a lot for our reptiles and give them their proper needs. There is a greater number of dead cats and dogs each year than that of reptiles.

I always take my reptiles to a vet when they are sick. I would never let them die in my basement. That title is really not a good one, it gives the rest of the people an illusion that all reptile owners deprive their animals from a good life. I know for a fact that my reptiles are healthy and that I do everything to keep them in a surrounding accordingly to their origins.

And what Christine Schramm said about reptiles not suppose to be held in aquariums, vivariums or cages, I do not agree either on this point.
If it is not ok to keep an animal from running away, then why do we keep declawed cats from going outside? Why do we keep a dog in a house all day because we are at work and don't want to let him run free outside??? This is keeping it from running free in the wil so it should also be considered as non-ethical according to Mrs Christine Schramm. Many reptiles will not even do a lon distance of traveling in the wild. Many snakes will spend their whole lives in a space no bigger than most of our backyeards. I do not think a snake or a gecko will mind spending it's time in an appropriate size vivarium.

I do not look at my reptiles as morphs or "designer snakes". I love my reptiles and believe it or not, they do bond with you after a while.

Also, there is another passage in your article that troubled me a little:
<<...speckled caiman (alligators), who look cute at $150 and grow big enough to "rip your head off.">> Yes this can be true, but there is also the fact that each year, there are hundreds even thousands of dog attacks. I do not see a bigger danger in a caiman or a massive dog. Either one of them can deliver painfull and sometimes deadly bites.

Banning "exotic pet" is not a way to go. Exotic pets is not a specific word for animals. This includes birds, reptiles, cats, dogs, amphibians, tortoises, and more. Why ban animals because of our own fear of salmonella (when chicken have it) or because of our misunderstanding on them. A good way to prevent reptiles from dying because of our mistakes is to educate people on these terrific animals. The 1st step would be to have all employees in a petstore know about the animals they sell (that also includes cats and birds since many of them will not even know how to properly care for those also). Reptiles is something that is growing in popularity each year. Why ban then because of fears or misleading tales like this article you whrote about reptiles dying in basements???

This is my opinion, I know it may not count to your eyes, but my reptiles count for me and I will do anything to prevent them from harm's way and prevent bylaws, that are non-fonded, banning "Exotic pets".

Thanks

Michael
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Old 06-27-03, 04:13 PM   #60 (permalink)
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**ANOTHER UPDATE**

Well I just got a reply from another member of the council, Christine Kiverago:

Thank you for your email. Please note that at the Regular Council meeting held Monday, June 16, 2003, Council decided to enact the Exotic Animal By-law No. 14823 dealing with the prohibition of the sale in the City of endangered, exotic, wild and dangerous animals, and require staff to hold a public information meeting prior to the introduction of the By-law for final reading. As yet, the date for this public information meeting has not been set, but the public will be given notification about the meeting through advertisements in the local newspapers.

In the meantime, your message will be forwarded to the Mayor and Council, City Solicitor and Manager of By-law & Licensing for their information.
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