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Old 06-25-03, 06:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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In response to Mark's first post; I have been to the Rainforest Reptile Refuge, and although the animals seemed to be fairly well cared for (I know how hard it would be to run a refuge), but she seemed to be in the wrong place. She was talking about how vicious iguanas are (and I know they can be; but this kind of seems to be the wrong place to be spouting your mouth), and had articles about reptile attacks. I know these can be useful to warn people from spur-of-the-moment, it-would-be-cool-to-own-a-6-foot-lizard type thing, and it is good that she is trying to inform potential herp owners. Another thing that took place while I was there, (and this is before I had gotten my first snake, and I was considering getting a ball python) my mom asked her whether or not it would be a good choice. The refuge owner started going on about how nippy they are, how they carry diseases and have eating problems (I know, wild-caught problems), and that instead of reaching 3-5 feet, like I had researched, they got 6+ feet (and of course my mom wanted to have a fairly small snake). So in conclusion, my hopes of getting that ball python were destroyed, my mom got a bit more freaked out from snakes, and although I love going to see the animals, I wish they had someone better suited to meet the public there.

Mike

PS- This was around 2000, and I eventually did get a snake. At the 2001 Spring TARAS show, Henry P had a little honduran milksnake for $50, and he turned out to be the perfect starter snake. Hahaa, my poor mom; I walked into the show with the intention of looking around and maaaaaaaaybe getting something (even though she hadn't 100% approved of it yet), and walked out with this snakes. It didn't take her long to fall under the charm of Zip, my male hoduran milksnake, and now she tells everyone he's "cute". hahahahahah
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Old 06-25-03, 06:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 06-25-03, 06:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So much anger!?!
"Attitudes like mine?" You mean the attitude that it is not for the city or municipality to dictate my collection size or ability to care for it?
You mean the attitude that cat and dog care is not related to reptile care?
You mean the attitude that there is a very real danger in giving bylaw the ability to decide who is a breeder and who is a keeper or collector?

You are confused today Damien. Have a rest. And spare me your 'reptile advice'
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Old 06-25-03, 06:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mark...I understand your points related to registration, and you raise a good arguement...but 'registration' is something for us to do as an industry/hobby within reptile organizations(provincial/national,etc) so that good can come from it. The cities and municipalities do not and should not manage reptile registrations of any kind, for this would lead to pointless fees and controls. Restricting the number of animals is not appropriate for reptiles regardless of whether you consider yourself a 'hobbiest' or 'breeder', simply because it is not practical to impose restrictions on all parties, regardless of species kept. This 'blanket' approach would damage our ability to keep these wonderful animals. No doubt about it.
I have to totally agree with this...... Any registration for breeders or keepers would only give the powers that be more ruleing then they already have......Plus how on earth are we going to keep the CBB market alive if we are probed and watched all the time....I think we are able to keep an eye out on ourselves and most of us have the ability to know when our animals are in poor condition or what is illegal to keep.We dont need anyone who doesnt know a thing about herps to tell us that...........
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Old 06-25-03, 06:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Breeders should have to be regestered to keep control of populations and conditions. This would also make them accountable to be "legimate"businesses. Taxes and such, but thats another topic all together. It would hopefully eliminate the importing of sickly animals and substandard conditions of snakey-mills. If people are so worried out the "health and safety" of the reptiles of the world, this would be a giant leap for their safety
OMG......Please give me a break....... MOST of us have put blood,sweat and tears not to mention thousands of dollars into our collections.......MOST of us have the best conditions for our animals and MOST of us do watch for over flooding of the markets and take steps not to let this happen.......We dont need the likes of "the powers that be" or urself telling us how many herps we can keep. As for the Legit business ,paying taxes and such.....I for one do and have all along.....seems to me that ur still upset about some other personal/business issues As for ur sickly animals and substandard snakey mills comment ......All I can say is that if u put a watchful eye on us breeders all ull have is ur sickly herps out there.......And I am sure u know all about that .
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Old 06-25-03, 06:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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anger???

Anger....have a rest???
Ok sorry that your opinions are Godlike and no one else knows more. You are correct, you should have the rights to own as many as you want and care for them as you see fit. No one should be able to tell you what to do, this should also apply to the novice who buys as many animals as he sees fit, housing them in any manner they choose. No one should be able to tell them anything. No regulations or restrictions.

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Old 06-25-03, 06:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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the last 3 pragraphs in the second letter is full of shi*

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Old 06-25-03, 06:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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uhhh... guys??? You're kind of missing the point. It won't matter who sounds godlike or whatever regulations there are or whatever if exotic pets are banned altogether. Just trying to nudge you back to the point...
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Old 06-25-03, 06:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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that was my point.

My point WAS that. Without restrictions and laws to regulate these animals. Big brothers answer will be a complete ban!
People who can't understand this are in fact dooming their hobby.
If Mark!!!! who is capt. anti-establishment (LOL) gets this and is willing to comply to a degree, it should send a message.

There are laws to protect and regulate everything in life!!!!
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Old 06-25-03, 06:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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uhhh... guys??? You're kind of missing the point. It won't matter who sounds godlike or whatever regulations there are or whatever if exotic pets are banned altogether. Just trying to nudge you back to the point...


True......but I wonder if they actually realize that there are more to exotics then herps........Have the talked to the bird people,cavie people or rabbit people.......Dout it What I dont understand is why every topic on this exotic banning is always directed to herps......It must be the danger aspect I would rather get bitten by a boa than a parrot any day ...... Plus how many dogs and cats have bitten people compaired to herps....... Way more thats for sure.......And what is the most likely animal to kill a person..........Well it isnt a lizard or a snake .......In North America its a DEER.......[
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Old 06-25-03, 06:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
People who can't understand this are in fact dooming their hobby

Pretty bold statement coming from someone who use to bring in WC/Farmed animals for his store and to take to shows.......

And we do have regualtions.....CITES is one of them......Alberta Wild Life has sheets of them.......But the only thing bans and regulations of how many we can keep are going to do is make the market go underground even more than it already is......Which means the people who need the education wont be able to get it.......and the price of our beloved herps will shy rocket.......I for one vote on EDUCATION not regualtion
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Old 06-25-03, 06:56 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Although I am a big dog lover, my opinion is that you are in much more danger when meeting a strange dog than when coming into contact w/most any reptile.
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Old 06-25-03, 07:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I am with damien but on a different line I think that any snake That is "hot" or over 10 feet should be licenced nd pet stores cant sell either of them or camiens because they become throw aways pets usually

The reptile refuge Is right near my house I have never been there But I plan on going down there to calmly discuss this issue with christine scramm My friend said they they wont let ANY one Adopt ANYthing AT ALL te camiens are PACKED into one tank with NO breathing room
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Old 06-25-03, 07:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Well I guess this answers the question of do we live in a free society, apparently some politicians what to control how we spend our time and what types of animals we can keep. last time I heard the ferret rescue had over 300 ferrets from the Vancouver area. Why has no one mentioned this? Simply they can pass as cute and cuddly. Basically they have fur. I was just called by our local SPCA because someone brought a snake in. They would even let it in the building because they don't like them it was in a hamster cage underneath of a tree in the f**cking parking lot. Apparently "humane" only applies to animals they personally like. So much for a huge problem. since I agreed to take reptiles in that were dropped of at the SPCA three months ago, I have only received two reptiles. Wow I had no idea it was such a huge problem. I personally will not be donating any money to the SPCA from now on. I respect what they do with the animals they choose to help, but how can I possibly support them when they are so biased that they leave a poor snake in the parking lot. They fear what they don't know or understand and I didn't see any indication that they wanted to learn.

As far as someone wanting to tell me how many snakes I can own, THAT IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS! How on earth can that be a good solution? So now no one can be a large breeder? God forbid you should want to keep something you love and now wait you now have to many choose which you want to keep and now you can't get anymore. How is that going to help there be less abandoned reptiles. How does that equal responsible ownership?

Oh and form now on I am calling it"The Rainforest Reptile Refuse."

That's my rant! Tim B.
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Old 06-25-03, 07:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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A letter I am thinking of sending.............

Hello.

My name is Ryan Wunsch. My wife Sheila and myself are curators of Scales Zoo in Leader Saskatchewan. It is exclusively a reptile zoo, and our primary goals are to educate people (children and adults) and promote conservation of the world’s animals and their habitat.

Reptiles are very misunderstood creatures. Many people are afraid of reptiles because of their lack of knowledge. Unfortunately, reptiles all to often get a “bad rap”. I can also see how this “bad rap” can fuel proposed bylaws.

This is very unfortunate.

I started by keeping reptiles at home. If I were not allowed to do this, because of a bylaw, I would have most likely not continued my interest and learning about wildlife and then environment.

I know many biologists, zoologists, herpetologists and environmentalists who I am sure would not have pursued one of these very honourable careers, if they had not been given the chance to keep reptiles.

The term “exotic animal”, due to various past incidents (some not so past) is being used recklessly in shock-media campaigns against many causes.

Reptiles have been kept and captively bred as a hobby (herpeticulture), for more than 50 years.

What makes them more exotic than a hamster from Siberia, a gerbil from Africa, or a fish (many fish are ruthlessly caught from the wild, to die in petstores and fish tanks)? For some reason these other animals are perfectly acceptable pets.

In the last 20, and more so in the last 5 – this hobby has seen many great advances. Many species of snakes are more than 10 generations captive bred.

Furthermore, there are 2700 species of snakes on the planet. There are not enough zoos in the world to captively propagate this number of snake species. If not for herpetoculture, there will some day be much less than 2700 species.

Reptiles are becoming endangered and extinct faster than many types of animals primarily due to habitat loss and lack of protection. Every one wants to save the cute panda bear, but when it comes to reptiles (especially snakes, due to their perceived lack of cuteness by the general public), there are too few people who fight for the cause.

The best keepers of reptiles are those people who truly love them. I would much rather see these animals be kept by people who are caring for them properly, than to see the animals go to overcrowded shelters.

Have a good day
Ryan Wunsch
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